Frequent lockdowns may have contributed to Uvalde tragedy, investigators say

[RCL-09]

"Cowardice may have contributed to Uvalde tragedy, investigators say"

There. Fixed it.
Anything to take peoples minds off what was NOT done that day.

That is shortsighted and ignores the complexity of the issue.

 

[luvsmiths]

That is shortsighted and ignores the complexity of the issue.

Go talk about the complexity of the issue with someone like Gavin Newsom. Talk will fix everything. Let's talk, and debate instead of acting.

I wonder what they talked about while they were sanitizing their hands in the hallway, outside the door.

Maybe the complexity of the issue.

 

[BB57]

Nowhere did it say that complacency was the problem.

Fair enough. Blaming it on complacency as one of the problems is right up there with saying easy access to AR-15s was one of the problems. Both were problems, but both are far down the list of causes and are not the primary causes.

 

[RCL-09]

Go talk about the complexity of the issue with someone like Gavin Newsom. Talk will fix everything. Let's talk, and debate instead of acting.

I wonder what they talked about while they were sanitizing their hands in the hallway, outside the door.

Maybe the complexity of the issue.

Simplicity is "ban assault weapons". Short sighted, useless, meaningless. Just as blaming cowardice for the issue is... simple, takes no thought, no understanding, no real solution.

 

[RCL-09]

Fair enough. Blaming it on complacency as one of the problems is right up there with saying easy access to AR-15s was one of the problems. Both were problems, but both are far down the list of causes and are not the primary causes.

Nah. Complacency is an issue. Not the issue, but certainly part of it. That's the complexity of security, and related issues. Some understand it, some don't. Cause and contributing factors are not one and the same.

 

[Sistema1927]

Focusing on the wrong problems gets people killed.

 

[GerSan69]

GerSan, could you share where you got the information regarding the Uvalde Chief of Police calling the shooter, and the BORTAC defied orders?

Uvalde school police chief 'repeatedly tries to negotiate with gunman even as he continues to fire' | Daily Mail Online and in the Texas legislature's report.

 

[GerSan69]

Complacency Kills Police Officers - Blue Ethos Specialized Training

Complacency Kills Police Officers

Curiosity killed the cat, but it’s not curiosity that is killing police officers, it’s complacency contributing to flawed situational awareness.

To believe that bad things only happen to other people; To fall into a comfortable rut of apathy – laziness; To have enjoyed success for so long as to believe all actions will result in successful outcomes;

I disagree. I maintain it is a combination of training and reinforcement of training by supervision. Officers are trained to not be aggressive. A lack of at least a bit of a willingness to be aggressive in the face of an attack is what kills cops. They hesitate because they are thinking of that continuum I mentioned in my other post, and because they are told that if they kill someone without justification, they are screwed - not just fired, but charged, too.

 

[GerSan69]

"Cowardice may have contributed to Uvalde tragedy, investigators say"

There. Fixed it.
Anything to take peoples minds off what was NOT done that day.

Heh. God knows "investigators" know everything.
Well, "everything" I've seen in news reports and in official documents, like the Texas state investigation I mentioned, tells me that the failures started at the top... government officials mandating the neutering of the police, and the school police chief, who wrote into his own shooter protocol that HE was supposed to be in charge - but promptly forgot that when the real thing happened. Instead, he tries to call the shooter to negotiate. Negotiate???

Have you heard the saying, "You fight like you train"? It's 100% true. The local cops had it drilled into them to clear everything with a supervisor. (Again, the officer at the beginning is a classic example of that.) I guess you could call it cowardice, but training is a funny thing. In stressful times those lessons take over and you go into autopilot. And when your boss is right there on scene, you expect to be given orders - and you wait for those orders, like you were trained to. That's why the BP agents were the ones to finish the job. They don't work for Uvalde, so they didn't look to Arredondo as their "boss."

I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm an old retired guy. It's just when I sit here and see all those cues, things I've seen before or trained for, I feel like I have a pretty good picture of how these things played out. The whole thing was predictable once the first few steps were taken.

 

[m&p2.0fdethumbsafety]

the establishment left's goal is to get people to kill eachother so they can swoop in and justify their power grabs. the police are easy scapegoats to toss under the bus while "policy makers" get another raise and more responsibility/authority to "solve the problem"(that they created)

 

[Biggfoot44]

I'm too inept to edit down to one section of a large post .

Re : Post #11 , item marked as 4 , " Use of Force * Continuum* " .

This is out of use for a good 10yrs now .

It has been replaced by the " Use of Force * Circle * " .

The training graphics show the officer in the center , surrounded by the various Force catagories from mere presence to lethal .

The concept is that each option is equally accessible , with no sequence or linear progression . The goal is to proceede directly to The Appropriate Response to the Situation at That Moment .

I have been trained in First Responder Response to Active Shooter . It is extremely simple .

Run to the sound of the guns . Do not pause to clear rooms or hallways . Do not pause to render aid , or move people to safety .

If another GG responder is in imeadate sight , delay no more than 30 seconds to link up before running to the sound of the guns .

" You Job , and your Moral Duty is to save lives . Your survival is optional . If you fail tp proceede directly to the sound of the guns , you will be fired in addition to moral condemnation . "

 

[GerSan69]

Complacency Kills Police Officers - Blue Ethos Specialized Training

Complacency Kills Police Officers

Curiosity killed the cat, but it’s not curiosity that is killing police officers, it’s complacency contributing to flawed situational awareness.

Thanks for posting this. While I personally don't think complacency was a factor, the quote is certainly otherwise true.

By the way, I looked up "Blue Ethos" training. I'm sure they must be good people, but....
Before I say anything else are you with that group?

 

[Bald1]

GERSAN I could not disagree more. The police on the seen were cowards!!!!!!! The parents on seen were more willing to enter building than the cops were. I know a lot of guys from high school who went into law enforcement. They are NOT tough , mentally or physically. They are in it for the pay and pension. They routinely brag about making 6 figure salaries with OT and court time. They are not “gun guys” and most never fired a gun before the academy. To be a good cop I believe you need a certain mentality. I believe you have to be the ALPHA! Some officers I see and have interacted with are afraid of their own shadow. They are a disgrace to the uniform. This is my opinion based on experience. I’m sure many will disagree with it.

 

[m&p2.0fdethumbsafety]

what drives mass shooters is notoriety and werther's effect. it's proven that there's a correlation between the media broadcasting mass shootings and copy cats. what happens is people are already angry and suicidal, they see someone going out in a blaze of glory on the news, so that gives them the idea to do something similar