I have used Varget for 223 and 308. It works really well but it is a stick powder so it does make a "crunching" sound every so often. I really like that powder, but it is extinct around here. I used it to load Hornady 55 gr vmax in 223 and Nosler 165 gr Ballistic tip in my son's 308. I try to stay middle of the road when I load. I never load up to the max. I figure my son might be shooting it in the future so I do not load up to the max. I would rather be safe than sorry. I have been reading up on CFE223 and if you can find it, buy it! It will work in over 20 calibers plus it will clean copper residue out of a dirty barrel. This info is according to the 2013 Hodgdon reloading manual.
from zero to shooting; newbie saga
- Thread starter SanJoseScott
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forestswin
Member
first off - I am not an expert here
but great question
AP makes sense with new un-primed cases
but after reading the handbooks and manuals, I understand the process as:
you shoot a box of store bought ammo - say 50 rounds
clean them in tumbler - just those 50 - to keep the same lot of cases together
decap and resize, clean out primer pockets, brush inside case, measure case length
inside neck expand, trim cases to trim to length and debur
priming
charge with powder
seat bullet
crimp - separate step - needs a 4th die
shoot again
to do this process the way I read it - I bought a single stage and don't skip any steps and measure everything and case trim
I am a little OCD about these steps - but hey! I like tight groups
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I guess as we learn more and gain more experience, we'll be able to decide what steps can be skipped and when.
and I guess - to load with a progressive - the underlined steps above are skipped - or the cases are taken off then put back on the merry-go-round a few times.
Plenty of reloaders use progressive and assemble accurate and consistent ammo - so the method has to work!
I guess the saying "learn how to walk before learning how to run" applies here
I'll end up with a progressive someday - maybe when I graduate newbie school
but great question
AP makes sense with new un-primed cases
but after reading the handbooks and manuals, I understand the process as:
you shoot a box of store bought ammo - say 50 rounds
clean them in tumbler - just those 50 - to keep the same lot of cases together
decap and resize, clean out primer pockets, brush inside case, measure case length
inside neck expand, trim cases to trim to length and debur
priming
charge with powder
seat bullet
crimp - separate step - needs a 4th die
shoot again
to do this process the way I read it - I bought a single stage and don't skip any steps and measure everything and case trim
I am a little OCD about these steps - but hey! I like tight groups
I guess as we learn more and gain more experience, we'll be able to decide what steps can be skipped and when.
and I guess - to load with a progressive - the underlined steps above are skipped - or the cases are taken off then put back on the merry-go-round a few times.
Plenty of reloaders use progressive and assemble accurate and consistent ammo - so the method has to work!
I guess the saying "learn how to walk before learning how to run" applies here
I'll end up with a progressive someday - maybe when I graduate newbie school
Last edited:
gregintenn
Member
Cleaning the primer pockets is not necessary. I do it just because I'm OCD, and have a single stage press, but I've reprimed brass without cleaning the primer pockets with no ill effect.
Scott, I just did some checking between the Nosler book and Hornady book. You might find this interesting, I know I did. I looked at what you were loading and noticed that you are around 2500 fps with a max load of 44 gr reaching 2600 fps. Now I just checked my son's 308 ammo that I loaded for him using 165 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets. I used 44 gr of Varget to reach 2758 fps. I was thinking "oh no", I better check the Nosler book. I checked it and found that 44 gr was most accurate load and the middle load. Max load was 46 gr at 2820 fps. What a difference! I just thought I would share that with you. I was surprised at the difference.
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SanJoseScott
US Veteran
My brand new Lyman book shows suggested starting of 41.0 with max at 45.7+
Hornday shows starting at 32.6 with max at 44.0
The bottle of Varget shows 46.0 with the bullet I'm using
Being this was my first time ever I took the Lyman starting point added 2 grains and figured I'd see how things go.
The truly sad part is that there is this chronograph thing buzzing around in the back of my head.....UGH
BTW: I am using Lee 3 piece dies. Most likely overkill but they do fit and are not too short (I had read something about this). I have full case sizer/decapper in #1, Collet Neck Sizer in #2, Powder drop in #3, Bullet Seater in #4 and then Factory crimper in #5. I figured since there were 5 holes I would use them (ok, go ahead let me hear it)
This pic is where my standard lies. 10 shots at 50 yards with my .308 using 168g Federal Match King. Have yet to approach doing this again but it tells me that my tool and I are capable.
Hornday shows starting at 32.6 with max at 44.0
The bottle of Varget shows 46.0 with the bullet I'm using
Being this was my first time ever I took the Lyman starting point added 2 grains and figured I'd see how things go.
The truly sad part is that there is this chronograph thing buzzing around in the back of my head.....UGH
BTW: I am using Lee 3 piece dies. Most likely overkill but they do fit and are not too short (I had read something about this). I have full case sizer/decapper in #1, Collet Neck Sizer in #2, Powder drop in #3, Bullet Seater in #4 and then Factory crimper in #5. I figured since there were 5 holes I would use them (ok, go ahead let me hear it)
This pic is where my standard lies. 10 shots at 50 yards with my .308 using 168g Federal Match King. Have yet to approach doing this again but it tells me that my tool and I are capable.
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SanJoseScott
US Veteran
First range visit with first reloads
Wow. What a trip this excursion to the range was. First it was Easter (I had forgotten) and my favorite range was closed. I called up another range that I had wanted to try and it was open....whew.
For reference: My tool is a Remy 700 Tactical AAC-SD with a 20" 1 in 10 barrel with a few accessories (picture 1). On the top is a 7-30X50 Leatherwood. I started off with 8X zoom on the 50 and for part of the 100yd shooting today
I am using two different factory rounds for reference. Federal 168gr Sierra Match King and an off brand Trajetech 168gr Sierra Match King.
Back to the range.....
I had just done some work and the scope was off so I set up at the 50 yd range and zeroed the scope. Pretty classic effort as it turns out so I took a pic of the work (picture 2).
Then moved to the 100 yard range and got everything ready. I put 5 rounds of Federal into the first target and it was so so but it showed my that my zero was alright (not perfect but ok). I didn't want to change any setting because I wanted to compare my loads against the factory. So I loaded up 5 of my reloads (41gr Varget with 168g Sierra Match King bullet). I chambered the first round and was peering down range through the scope and the mental trip started.
"Did the powder measure really work, did the primer seat right, crimp.....did I read the scale correctly....am I about to toast my rifle....." There were about 100 things running through my mind other than breathing and shooting technique. What a trip that was.
After several moments I shot and nothing blew up and there was a hole in the target right where it should have been. One more round...ok and then I just started laughing out loud at myself. Anyway 5 rounds were put in the upper right target. Changed to the 42gr reloads put them into the lower right target. Then back to some factory loads to complete the shooting on this target. Picture 3 shows the results. I don't put a lot of stock in this other than it is my first reloads but I was encouraged by what I saw. The center target I changed to 16X zoom which I used for the rest of the day.
I took a break for a bit to contemplate things. I settled down and put up another target and you can see in Picture 3 the results. NOTE: I had two misfires where the primer didn't fire (noted on upper right target). Very curious. I re-chambered again and neither would fire. I would be curious if anyone has this experience with CCI primers.
Bottom line: I'm extremely happy with todays results and I am already planning the next batch of rounds where I will march up from 41g to 44gr and log the results. Then longer ranges will be warranted.
Then there is the .223 and the .357 reloading workup. I will be ordering a 10 pack of Hornady die bushings soon so I can keep the various calibers of dies set.
Happy, satisfied, smiling, <insert adjective here>.
Thanks for all the tremendous advice because without you guys the mistakes I might have made...well never mind. This board rocks!
Wow. What a trip this excursion to the range was. First it was Easter (I had forgotten) and my favorite range was closed. I called up another range that I had wanted to try and it was open....whew.
For reference: My tool is a Remy 700 Tactical AAC-SD with a 20" 1 in 10 barrel with a few accessories (picture 1). On the top is a 7-30X50 Leatherwood. I started off with 8X zoom on the 50 and for part of the 100yd shooting today
I am using two different factory rounds for reference. Federal 168gr Sierra Match King and an off brand Trajetech 168gr Sierra Match King.
Back to the range.....
I had just done some work and the scope was off so I set up at the 50 yd range and zeroed the scope. Pretty classic effort as it turns out so I took a pic of the work (picture 2).
Then moved to the 100 yard range and got everything ready. I put 5 rounds of Federal into the first target and it was so so but it showed my that my zero was alright (not perfect but ok). I didn't want to change any setting because I wanted to compare my loads against the factory. So I loaded up 5 of my reloads (41gr Varget with 168g Sierra Match King bullet). I chambered the first round and was peering down range through the scope and the mental trip started.
"Did the powder measure really work, did the primer seat right, crimp.....did I read the scale correctly....am I about to toast my rifle....." There were about 100 things running through my mind other than breathing and shooting technique. What a trip that was.
After several moments I shot and nothing blew up and there was a hole in the target right where it should have been. One more round...ok and then I just started laughing out loud at myself. Anyway 5 rounds were put in the upper right target. Changed to the 42gr reloads put them into the lower right target. Then back to some factory loads to complete the shooting on this target. Picture 3 shows the results. I don't put a lot of stock in this other than it is my first reloads but I was encouraged by what I saw. The center target I changed to 16X zoom which I used for the rest of the day.
I took a break for a bit to contemplate things. I settled down and put up another target and you can see in Picture 3 the results. NOTE: I had two misfires where the primer didn't fire (noted on upper right target). Very curious. I re-chambered again and neither would fire. I would be curious if anyone has this experience with CCI primers.
Bottom line: I'm extremely happy with todays results and I am already planning the next batch of rounds where I will march up from 41g to 44gr and log the results. Then longer ranges will be warranted.
Then there is the .223 and the .357 reloading workup. I will be ordering a 10 pack of Hornady die bushings soon so I can keep the various calibers of dies set.
Happy, satisfied, smiling, <insert adjective here>.
Thanks for all the tremendous advice because without you guys the mistakes I might have made...well never mind. This board rocks!
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gregintenn
Member
Looking good! It really isn't as complicated as it seems. It is just intimidating at first.
As for the faulty primers, I cannot recall a single instance of not having a primer ignite that wasn't a gun problem in all my years of shooting and reloading.
As for the faulty primers, I cannot recall a single instance of not having a primer ignite that wasn't a gun problem in all my years of shooting and reloading.
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SanJoseScott
US Veteran
I'm with you on that. Heard it and read it before. Interesting, because gun has never misfired before today. I am comparing the misfired rounds to ones that fired and primer depth is the same, firing pin indent the same. I can't for the life of me see anything obvious. It is interesting to note that the misfires were back to back from a single 10 round run.
Very curious....
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