FYI: H.R.822 vs H.R. 2900 Gun Owners of America

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The House of Representatives is expected to take up concealed carry reciprocity legislation tomorrow (Tuesday, Nov. 15). H.R. 822, sponsored by Rep. Cliff Stearns (R-FL), will allow many people who possess a concealed carry permit in one state to carry in other states as well.

While well-intentioned, there are several concerns with this legislation. In an effort to address these issues, Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA) introduced separate legislation (H.R. 2900), which has the support of GOA.

Please read on to learn more about specific problems with H.R. 822 (the bill coming to the floor tomorrow) and the differences between it and H.R. 2900.

And then, it is vitally important for all gun owners to contact their Representatives and urge them to cosponsor H.R. 2900. READ BILL H.R. 2900

ACTION: Urge your Representative to help fix H.R. 822 and to cosponsor the Broun legislation.

Flaw #1: H.R. 822 Destroys Vermont Carry

In Vermont, it has long been the case that law-abiding residents and non-residents alike could carry a concealed firearm, except for use in the commission of a crime. The state, incidentally, also has the distinction of consistently being ranked one of the safest states in the country.

H.R. 822 does not grant reciprocity to residents of Vermont, as the bill requires the presence of a physical permit in order to qualify. The state would be forced to move to a permit system for purposes of reciprocity, in effect being punished for having a system that is "too pro-gun."

Separate legislation H.R. 2900—supported by GOA and introduced by Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA)—would recognize the right of Vermont residents to carry in other states, requiring only that a picture identification (such as a drivers license) be in possession of the person carrying.

Flaw #2: H.R. 822 Undermines Constitutional Carry

Following the lead of Vermont, several states have taken up the issue of Constitutional Carry—where citizens do not need to obtain government permission before carrying a concealed firearm. Criminals, after all, are not inclined to line up at the sheriff's office or police department in order to obtain a permit to carry, so such requirements primarily burden the law-abiding segment of society.

In recent years, Alaska, Arizona and Wyoming have passed Constitutional Carry laws based on the Vermont model. Montana passed such a law that covers 98% of the state, and Texas passed a "constitutional carry lite" law that applies to firearms carried in a vehicle.

These states, however, left in place a permitting system specifically for the purposes of reciprocity. And although upwards of 6 million Americans have obtained permits, most gun owners do not get a permit because they don't like a system that treats their liberty as a privilege granted by the government.

About 98% of the adult American population, therefore, will be left out of the expansion of rights under (H.R. 822) whereas under H.R. 2900, more and more citizens will be covered as Constitutional Carry gains momentum. In this important respect, H.R. 822 pulls the rug out from under state legislatures which are considering Constitutional Carry, while H.R. 2900 does not.

Contact your Representative to send a pre-written message.

Flaw #3: H.R. 822 Does Not Help Many Residents in "May Issue" States

H.R. 822 allows for carry in any state except for Illinois and the state of one's residence. This will prove to be a major obstacle for gun owners to carry in their home states in many instances.

In many states, a person must be one of the lucky few or well-connected citizens in order to get a carry permit. Simply put, in some areas (i.e., California, Maryland, and Massachusetts), it's nearly impossible for residents to get a permit.

Residents can get an out-of-state permit, but under H.R. 822 they would be unable to carry in their home state. This, obviously, creates the odd situation of requiring states to recognize the permits of non-state residents, but not recognizing those of state residents who have out-of-state permits.

On the contrary, H.R. 2900 allows recognition in any state that allows concealed carry, thus letting citizens who live in these restrictive "may issue" states to still carry handguns in their home state so long as they hold a valid out-of-state permit.

In the landmark McDonald v. Chicago decision (2010), the Supreme Court held that the Second Amendment is incorporated to the states by the Due Process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. H.R. 2900 simply puts "teeth" into that ruling.

Flaw #4: H.R. 822 Takes Expansive View of the Commerce Clause

H.R. 822 relies on an abused and expansive view of the Constitution's Commerce Clause. The bill states that because firearms "have been shipped in interstate commerce," the Congress in justified in passing this legislation. That is not the "commerce" the Founder's envisioned as they sought to remove barriers of interstate trade.

The modern and broad interpretation of the Commerce Clause would, in the words of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas (Gonzales v. Raich), confer on the federal government the power to "regulate virtually anything – [until] the federal Government is no longer one of limited and enumerated powers."

The Broun bill ensures that citizens enjoy the "full faith and credit" protection that is guaranteed in Article IV of the Constitution.

Respecting the Constitution

Any federal legislation that imposes demands on the states must be scrutinized carefully by the language of the Constitution. At this point, a cynic might correctly point out that Congress passes bills on a weekly basis that go beyond what the Constitution allows. But we must be especially careful, as people who work towards federalism and constitutional government, not to fall into the trap of the end justifying the means.

H.R. 822 would certainly benefit many Americans, although that number represents only a small fraction of all gun owners. But the bill has several deep flaws that could be fixed by Rep. Broun's legislation.

ACTION: Contact your Representative and ask that he or she urge the leaders of the House to amend H.R. 822 to fix its serious concerns. The pre-written letter also asks your Rep. to cosponsor the Broun legislation.
 
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Flaw #1: H.R. 822 Destroys Vermont Carry

It does nothing to the people of Vermont from what I can see. Presently they cannot carry in any other states, without some type of permit, except those with constitutional carry. (AK,AZ,VT and WY). And I am not sure about WY.

The issue is that the state of VT does not issue permits so the reciprocity is not there now. It isn't changed by HR 822.

The other states that have constitutional carry have in place a permit system for reciprocity.

Flaw #2: H.R. 822 Undermines Constitutional Carry
........
98% of the adult American population...therefore, will be left out of the expansion of rights under (H.R. 822) whereas under H.R. 2900, more and more citizens will be covered as Constitutional Carry gains momentum. In this important respect, H.R. 822 pulls the rug out from under state legislatures which are considering Constitutional Carry, while H.R. 2900 does not.

Exactly which states are considering constitutional carry? I haven't heard a groundswell of states leaping up and rushing toward constitutional carry.

Flaw #3: H.R. 822 Does Not Help Many Residents in "May Issue" States

That should be an issue for the people of the states that are "may issue". On one hand people are saying the feds have no business messing in states affairs and in the next sentence want to introduce federal legislation to make the states comply with more federal legislation. Which is it?

I don't expect either HR 2900 or the already passed HR 822 to go any further than the Hose of Representatives. With a Democratic controlled Senate they may not even make it to consideration. And let's not forget who has the final power in the stroke of a (or no stroke) pen. I am pretty sure there is not enough votes on this to override a veto.

bob
 
just a copy and paste of some older NRA bulletins...

H.R. 822 -- National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act -- Heading to House Floor; Contact your Representative Now! Friday, October 28, 2011
As we've been reporting week in and week out, H.R. 822 -- the "National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011" is very good legislation for gun owners. The time is past due to dispel the alarmist rhetoric about the bill, and to set the record straight.

Most of the misguided, unfounded, and incorrect characterizations circulating lately regarding H.R. 822 have come from the anti-gun groups and media. However, a small number of vocal and supposedly "pro-gun" groups continue to report falsehoods, despite clear evidence to refute their assertions. Though they claim to be on the side of America's gun owners and the Second Amendment, their stance on this measure proves otherwise.

One group claimed H.R. 822 would include anti-gun amendments that would create "disastrous federally mandated infringements on our rights."

But, as we recently reported, the House Judiciary has already considered amendments to H.R. 822, and all anti-gun amendments offered that would weaken or gut the legislation were defeated.

The same group warns of "a 'study' to control firearm sales over the internet," and decries a "review" process that they claim will provide "a perfect opportunity for more changes." In reality, there was no amendment to study firearm sales over the internet. Period. And the "review" they speak of has nothing to do with adding new anti-gun provisions. The amendment referred to only requires a study of the law's effects, and that study would take place after the law is in effect.

Another group is trying to insinuate that anti-gunners in Congress will support the bill in order to limit our gun rights. In evaluating this ludicrous accusation, please consider that H.R. 822 has not just 245 cosponsors, but 245 pro-gun cosponsors. And -- just as telling -- none of the stalwart anti-gun representatives have signed on. In addition, well known anti-gun groups, including the Brady Campaign and Mayors Against Illegal Guns, have made killing H.R. 822 their top legislative priority. There is no hidden anti-gun counter-plot going on here.

Opponents of the legislation also claim that it tramples on each "states' rights." But states don't have rights, only powers. And while many anti-gun lawmakers who've long pushed national gun bans, national bans on private gun sales, national waiting periods and other federal restrictions have suddenly become born-again advocates of "states' rights" to oppose this bill, several provisions of the Constitution give Congress the authority to enact interstate carry. Congress also has the power to protect the rights of citizens, nationwide, under the 14th Amendment (please see related article from a recent Grassroots Alert).

Again, and for the record:

H.R. 822 is a GOOD bill and is GOOD for gun owners. The bill ENHANCES Americans' right to self-defense by enabling millions of permit holders to exercise their right to self-defense while traveling outside their home states.

There is currently only one remaining state (Illinois) that has no clear legal way for individuals to carry concealed firearms for self-defense outside the home. H.R. 822 would require states to recognize each others' lawfully-issued carry permits, just as they recognize driver's licenses and carry permits held by armored car guards.

H.R. 822 DOES NOT:

Create a federal licensing or registration system;
Establish a minimum federal standard for the carry permit;
Involve the federal bureaucracy in setting standards for carry permit;
Destroy permitless carry systems such as those in Arizona, Alaska, Vermont and Wyoming.
H.R. 822 is headed to the House floor. Please IMMEDIATELY contact your member of Congress and urge him or her to support the earliest possible consideration of H.R. 822.

You can find contact information for your U.S. Representative by using the "Write Your Representatives" tool at NRA-ILA ::. You may also contact your Representative by phone at (202) 225-3121. Additionally, you may CLICK HERE TO EMAIL YOUR MEMBER OF CONGRESS. http://www.capwiz.com/nra/issues/alert/?alertid=55111516

Again, H.R. 822 is a good bill for gun owners. Don't listen to false claims. Read the bill http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.822: yourself and READ OUR FACT SHEET http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=189&issue=003 to get more facts.

To listen to an NRANews interview about H.R. 822 with the bill's sponsor Rep. Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.), please click here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaEDH6lY8G8&feature=feedu

To listen to an NRANews interview about H.R. 822 with NRA-ILA Director of Research and Information John Frazer, please click here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCdM8LFv5dE&feature=channel_video_title

To read an op-ed piece about H.R. 822 by NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox, please click here http://townhall.com/columnists/chri...ing_a_key_second_amendment_freedom/page/full/




Right-To-Carry
The National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Bill


H.R. 822, introduced in the U.S. House by Representatives Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.) and Heath Shuler (D-N.C.), would allow any person with a valid state-issued concealed firearm permit to carry a concealed firearm in any state that issues concealed firearm permits, or that does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms for lawful purposes. A state's laws governing where concealed firearms may be carried would apply within its borders. The bill applies to D.C., Puerto Rico and U.S. territories. It would not create a federal licensing system; rather, it would require the states to recognize each others' carry permits, just as they recognize drivers' licenses and carry permits held by armored car guards. Rep. Stearns has introduced such legislation since 1995.

• H.R. 822 recognizes the significant impact of the landmark cases, District of Columbia v. Heller (2008) and McDonald v. City of Chicago (2010), which found that the Second Amendment protects a fundamental, individual right to keep and bear arms and that the protections of the Second Amendment extend to infringements under state law.

• Today, 49 states have laws permitting concealed carry, in some circumstances. Forty states, accounting for two-thirds of the U.S. population, have right-to-carry laws. Thirty-six of those have "shall issue" permit laws (including Alaska and Arizona, which also allow carrying without a permit), two have fairly administered "discretionary issue" permit laws, and Vermont (along with Alaska and Arizona) allows carrying without a permit. (Eight states have restrictive discretionary issue laws.)

• Citizens with carry permits are more law-abiding than the general public. Only 0.01% of nearly 1.2 million permits issued by Florida have been revoked because of firearm crimes by permit holders. Similarly low percentages of permits have been revoked in Texas, Virginia, and other right-to-carry states that keep such statistics. Right-to-carry is widely supported by law enforcement officials and groups.

• States with right-to-carry laws have lower violent crime rates. On average, right-to-carry states have 22 percent lower total violent crime rates, 30 percent lower murder rates, 46 percent lower robbery rates, and 12 percent lower aggravated assault rates, compared to the rest of the country. The seven states with the lowest violent crime rates are right-to-carry states. (Data: FBI.)

• Crime declines in states with right-to-carry laws. Since adopting right-to-carry in 1987, Florida's total violent crime and murder rates have dropped 32 percent and 58 percent, respectively. Texas' violent crime and murder rates have dropped 20 percent and 31 percent, respectively, since enactment of its 1996 right-to-carry law. (Data: FBI.)

• The right of self-defense is fundamental, and has been recognized in law for centuries. The Declaration of Independence asserts that "life" is among the unalienable rights of all people. The Second Amendment guarantees the right of the people to keep and bear arms for "security."

• The laws of all states and the constitutions of most states recognize the right to use force in self-defense. The Supreme Court has stated that a person "may repel force by force" in self-defense, and is "entitled to stand his ground and meet any attack made upon him with a deadly weapon, in such a way and with such force" as needed to prevent "great bodily injury or death." (Beard v. United States (1895))

• Congress affirmed the right to own guns for "protective purposes" in the Gun Control Act (1968) and Firearm Owners' Protection Act (1986). In 1982, the Senate Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on the Constitution described the right to arms as "a right of the individual citizen to privately possess and carry in a peaceful manner firearms and similar arms."

It is important to note that, despite what a handful of self-proclaimed "pro-gun" activists claim, H.R. 822 would not create a federal registration or licensing system, nor would it establish a minimum federal standard for a carry permit. Rather, it would require the states to recognize each others' carry permits, just as they recognize driver's licenses and carry permits held by armored car guards. Unfortunately, these self-proclaimed "gun rights" supporters, who have no active lobbying presence in Congress or any legislature, have an agenda that has very little to do with promoting the interests of gun owners.

Here are the FACTS about a few of their claims:

Myth: H.R. 822 would involve the federal bureaucracy in setting standards for carry permits, resulting in "need" requirements, higher fees, waiting periods, national gun owner registration, or worse.

FACT: H.R. 822 doesn't require -- or even authorize -- any such action by any federal agency. In fact, since it would amend the Gun Control Act, it would fall under a limitation within that law that authorizes "only such rules and regulations as are necessary to carry out" the GCA's provisions. No federal rules or regulations would be needed to implement H.R. 822, which simply overrides certain state laws.

Myth: H.R. 822 would destroy permitless carry systems such as those in Arizona, Alaska, Vermont and Wyoming.

FACT: H.R. 822 would have absolutely no effect on how the permitless carry states' laws work within those states. For residents of Arizona, Alaska and Wyoming, where permits are not required but remain available under state law, H.R. 822 would make those permits valid in all states that issue permits to their own residents. Residents of Vermont, where no permits are issued or required, could obtain nonresident permits from other states to enjoy the benefits of H.R. 822.

Myth: If H.R. 822 moved through the legislative process, it would be subject to anti-gun amendments.

TRUTH: By this logic, neither NRA, nor any other pro-gun group, should ever promote any pro-gun reform legislation. But inaction isn't an option for those of us who want to make positive changes for gun owners. Instead, we know that by careful vote counting and strategic use of legislative procedure, anti-gun amendments can be avoided or defeated.

Posted: 2/22/2011 12:00:00 AM




Copyright 2011, National Rifle Association of America, Institute for Legislative Action.
This may be reproduced. It may not be reproduced for commercial purposes.
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Sorry, but it seems to be another case of GOA not having a clue.
What they state as flaw 1 thru 3 are a totally bogus set of arguments. 4 might have some validity, I don't like what congress has done to the commerce clase anyway.

822 is a good start. As far as any 'may' issue state allowing non-citizens to carry while denying citizens, that will last as far as the first law suit claiming un-equal protection.
 
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