-FYI- Model 69 and 66-8 ball detent design

[David R]

I think the ball detent is an accuracy thing. The cylinder is always held in the same place every time its fired by spring pressure. IF the crane can move then it may be in a different spot each time the cylinder is turned and fired. This is only if its loose. EVERYTHING is a little loose allowing for clearance and tolerance. This ball detent keeps everything in its place each shot.

This way it is continuously keeping light pressure on the crane to keep it closed the same every shot. Consistency? Yup. It will still work the same when the revolver has had many thousands of rounds through it.

If the ball were exactly in the groove, it would not keep the slop out.

It makes total sense to me and I like it.

To each his own.

David

 

[Jim NNN]

I think S&W revolver fans are, by definition, traditionalists. Nothing wrong with that at all...I speak from first hand experience. But the glass bead finish keeps the model 69 from being what I would call a revolver in the Smith and Wesson traditional vein, anyway. What made me want one at first was the low price on an all steel L frame .44 magnum Smith and Wesson revolver. If it can take the pressure, I don't really mind that a minor visual aspect isn't in the traditional vein. Just my opinion.

 

[CleanHarry]

Call for 500's credentials... Employment at Smith and Wesson.... Crickets... Um.... Crickets...

I have friends who can create that drawing you posted....

Are you saying that is an actual Smith and Wesson design illustration?

 

[jaymoore]

As far as my comments and "expertise". All I can claim is having been employed many years ago by one of S&Ws current competitors for the pistol market. And having a mechanical engineering degree that's mostly wasted as I've been machining aircraft powerplant bits and pieces for a couple of decades.

As far as this discussion goes I'm mostly a trigger puller and tinkerer. Have been pulling apart S&Ws for ages. Usually manage get 'em back together at some point...

 

[shocker]

500 is an s&w employee

Communicated with him via private message. I think he will answer polite inquiries. Rants and dictats, maybe not.

 

[Mark F]

I can't imaging why (or how) anyone would squabble over the Model 69's front ball detent lock-up. First off, unless you're looking for it, it's not readily noticeable. Second, it ensures precise seating of the crane every time the cylinder is closed. That is Function before Form. I defy anyone to take an existing L Frame and convert it to a 44 Magnum, it will be an absolute disaster in the making.

The Engineers at Smith & Wesson did their due diligence to ensure that this generation of L Frame exceeds safety parameters set forth.

My Model 69 has the best lock-up I have ever seen in a revolver and I have full confidence that it'll last a life-time. Here's an actual photo of the ball detent in my 69. What's not to like??

 

[M29since14]

I would think this topic has been fairly beaten to death by almost anyone's standards but one final thought comes to mind in looking at the drawing and that is that the revolver would be a lot harder to open if that ball did seat all the way in the detent - and then a lot of folks might find it necessary to complain about that!

The design seems like a step in the right direction, as far as keeping the cylinder in the proper position. The forward lock on the ejector rod always struck me as good protection for the rod, but probably of very little use in keeping the cylinder exactly where it should be. From what I can see, if I could stand to have one more S&W .44 Magnum, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Model 69.

 

[cochise]

It reminds me of the fairy tale, "The Emperor's Clothes". Everyone comments on how wonderful they are, but ...................

As I said, if the " v " notch is not important, why have it ? The crane lock up on a Ruger SP 101 has the S&W beat by a long shot.

 

[500swmag]

a bit more

Hi 500swmag
If memory serves you are one of the engineers of the X frame. I recall some posts back in 02-03 from an engineer at S&W.
Not sure the forum post count is correct.
Thanks for the info - Joe

Wasn't ignoring your post, just saw it when I was catching up on posts.

If the "notch" is a non issue, why even have it ?

Not sure I understand non-issue comment.
The ball detent serves to hold the yoke closed tight to frame during carry up, preventing charge hole misalignment when the gun fires.

Call for 500's credentials... Employment at Smith and Wesson.... Crickets... Um.... Crickets...
I have friends who can create that drawing you posted....
Are you saying that is an actual Smith and Wesson design illustration?

Communicated with him via private message. I think he will answer polite inquiries. Rants and dictats, maybe not.

a bit more information
The X-frame uses a ball detent in the yoke (as you know)
and it is set up nominally .008" offset center to ensure the
ball detent is always pushing the yoke against frame.

-500

 

[cochise]

Originally Posted by cochise
If the "notch" is a non issue, why even have it ?

Not sure I understand non-issue comment.
The ball detent serves to hold the yoke closed tight to frame during carry up, preventing charge hole misalignment when the gun fires.


The point I was trying to make is the Machining of the "V". If pressure against the ball is all that is required you certainly do not need a V notch set. A flat rod would accomplish that. Looking at it, one would assume a V notch is there to lock the ball in place. If that is not the intent, then no need for the "V". You don't have to have it.

Did I make my point clear as mud ?

 

[M29since14]

Did I make my point clear as mud ?

You certainly did to me!

 

[WPWarhawk]

Here are a couple pics of the ball detent on my 629 Performance Center gun.

 

[tcc1953]

This discussion kinda reminds me of the soccer games everyone seems so fired up about...a lot of folks running in different directions, a whole lot of hollering, but not really much happening. I agree, the off-center ball detent is a little disconcerting and in a peculiar place (but obviously why when dimensions are closely examined) but, it works. Time and dollars spent will tell if this was a worthwhile venture on the part of S&W. I'll go out on a limb and say we will see other calibers in this configuration, possibly the .41 magnum or even the venerable .45 Colt.