Gene DeSantis' company now offers horsehide

[rednichols]

I have permission from forum moderator turnerriver, to make mention that DeSantis Holster has added (back) horsehide to its holster range. Gene started out making gunleather at the behest of a certain Federal agent of note, to fill the orders left incomplete when Paris Theodore's 'Seventrees Ltd.' shut down early in the '70s. These were horsehide, and having seen both, his latest efforts are far superior. Superior because in a half century Gene has perfected the manufacture of gunleather.

The announcement was made first on Tactical Wire, then on my blog, and now this forum. Gene told me that he will be supplying all his cowhide range in horsehide at additional cost, with a quick delivery guarantee of a week or so! I must say the models I've seen are handsomely executed.

I think of horsehide as 'Kydex without being plastic'. It's thin, it's stiff, and one could borrow a line from the old Heiser mantra, "no man ever outlived his DeSantis horsehide holster".

 

[chief38]

Being a Kramer Horsehide Leather aficionado for decades now, I truly believe in the huge amount of benefits Horsehide offers. I have had many DeSantis cowhide holsters over the years and while they have been adequate and descent, they were to me a "good bang for the buck" holster but, certainly not the best available.

I have zero experience and was not even aware Gene started making products out of Horsehide. I guess he decided to step up his game. Good for him! I always applaud company's that strive to improve their products as apposed to company's that cheap out to save a few cents and cheapen their product. It will be interesting to see how the new Horsehide holster are made, their QC and how they function and perform. I suppose that like everything in life it also depends on the grade and quality of horsehide he is using. Again, I use Kramer as the benchmark as IMHO there is no better holster made as far as being as close to perfect as possible. Certainly not cheap - but IMO worth every red cent! I hope DeSantis did not cut corners, if so his new line will not fly high.

 

[SAFireman]

I've been buying the Kramer horsehide for more than 30 years and still have one of the first cross draw holsters for my 80's Satin Commander.

I'm sure Desantis is trying to better their product, and I'm all for it.

 

[ladder13]

I love DeSantis holsters and now they’ve gotten even better. Think I’ll hold off until the change is made.

 

[Baxter6551]

I agree with Chief. I’m a Kramer guy. I also own quite a few DeSantis holsters mostly their speed scabbard - a fine holster. I don’t know what the cost of DeSantis horsehide would be but if it’s a matter of another $40-$50 to get a Kramer I would have to go with them. Their Belt Scabbard holster is perfect for all day comfortable carry. The way the belt loops are molded just sets it apart.
Their paddle and pocket holsters are great also.

 

[Malysh]

I have Kramer as well as DeSantis (and Sparks, Rosen, Null, Galco, and Seventrees, & a few old Bianchis, etc.)

In horsehide, I prefer Kramer. I also agree their Belt Scabbard is an excellent holster.

Good to know DeSantis is making horsehide now.

 

[rednichols]

Greg Kramer is an ex-DeSantis employee, just as I am an ex-Bianchi man. And Kramer is still making the old styles but as the only full-time designer maker of the 20th century, in the 21st century I kept innovating. Gene's company was my client while I operated Nichols Innovation, a consulting design and marketing company to the mid-sized gunleather makers like Gene's, Aker's, even Gallagher's Galco. For that reason, I switched to horsehide for my Berns-Martin Australia (B-M is my trademark now) range that is built from several common parts to create different holster models, for mass production as a habit although I stayed v, v small. I'm not permitted to promote my line on this forum and I'm not: I retired in 2020 and gave away (literally) all my equipment to local saddlers.

 

[Buford57]

That's good news. I bought a used Galco horsehide pocket holster on this forum over 10 years ago and it doesn't show any more wear now than then. I later bought the same model in cowhide as a spare and after about a week I gave it away and went back to the horsehide.

 

[chief38]

I went on the DeSantis website and viewed his new Horsehide line. They look to be well made but on a personal basis, I dislike the tensioning screw. I have never liked them on any holsters and like when holster's are just made properly to begin with. To me, a holster should be made from the get-go with proper fit, retention and craftsmanship and be able to remain like that for its life span - never cared for snaps, straps, velcro, springs or screws. That is one reason (IMO) Kramer's design and execution in Horsehide is the perfect balance. It's just made right - from the start.

 

[rednichols]

I went on the DeSantis website and viewed his new Horsehide line. They look to be well made but on a personal basis, I dislike the tensioning screw. I have never liked them on any holsters and like when holster's are just made properly to begin with. To me, a holster should be made from the get-go with proper fit, retention and craftsmanship and be able to remain like that for its life span - never cared for snaps, straps, velcro, springs or screws. That is one reason (IMO) Kramer's design and execution in Horsehide is the perfect balance. It's just made right - from the start.

Please don't misunderstand why tension screws are used on holsters (including on Kydex versions). We designers use them to allow the buyer to CHOOSE the amount of resistance to drawing vs limiting them to what the factory turned out. Speaking of Kramer, an oft-told tale of mine is one that I got a 1911 into but couldn't get it out; had to leaves it for the owner of the pair to deal with!

Also realize that all pistols such as the 1911, are not made identically. Even a rib on a slide a la Gold Cup will fit a Colt Govt model holster more tightly. Consumers don't send us their pistols with their orders, we're forced to use the moulds we've acquired over the decades. And we use moulds because today's holsters are wet moulded in presses that crush real pistols (I've seen 'em). The image is Sparks (and you all thought Milt's old operation moulded by hand!):

 

[MG34/bar]

Chief38,

Have to agree with Red on the tension screws; I like being able to set the amount of resistance on the draw, and no matter how well built a leather holster will lose some retention over time. I still have a Bianchi No.2 for the 1911 that I bought in early 1966 (if memory serves) and I still use it on occasion. I’m glad that it has a safety strap.

 

[ladder13]

And Kramer offers cowhide.

 

[rednichols]

Chief38,

Have to agree with Red on the tension screws; I like being able to set the amount of resistance on the draw, and no matter how well built a leather holster will lose some retention over time. I still have a Bianchi No.2 for the 1911 that I bought in early 1966 (if memory serves) and I still use it on occasion. I’m glad that it has a safety strap.

Then, a segue to the Donihoo design, which the Bianchi No. 2 is. JB has misrepresented it as a Threepersons for the auto but that is a way of thinking of it, but it is not a Threepersons.

A Threepersons binds the frame of the revolver, preferably the SA it was create for in its original form which we know as the Brill. But a Donihoo, when made that way, will bind the pistol so badly that the maker then loosens the holster and adds a safety strap (I was there at Bianchi when these straps were added).

But in creating a Donihoo of unforgiving horsehide, I learned that the Donihoo grips the flat faces of the slide, and not against the frame which m/b free of the welts. And to make that work, the welts m/b clear of the dust cover of the 1911, and a seond row of main seam sewing added to create a clamping effect against the slide vs the frame. When done this way, as Donihoo's original holsters were done, no strap!

Of the makers in the '60s when Jack persuade everyone from Seventrees to Safariland to make his design, only the very earliest Safarilands got this right. Then, for some reason, the company dropped the second row and added the strap as had Bianchi.

While Seventrees had the two rows but no welts! So likely relied on moulding -- except I've only ever seen two, one in the famed 1968 articles about Seventrees and one made by Ken Null FOR Seventrees. Point being, so rare it doesn't matter. Paris' ad man hated the holster and told Paris so, quite clearly.

 

[chief38]

Chief38,

Have to agree with Red on the tension screws; I like being able to set the amount of resistance on the draw, and no matter how well built a leather holster will lose some retention over time. I still have a Bianchi No.2 for the 1911 that I bought in early 1966 (if memory serves) and I still use it on occasion. I’m glad that it has a safety strap.

I have at least a half dozen DeSantis holsters that I have not used in 20 - 25 years and will soon sell or give them away to friends and family if they want them. This is due to the fact that since I have gotten into Kramer Horsehide holsters 25 years ago I've rarely used anything else. The first Kramer Horsehide I bought was for a 2" M60 Chief's Special. The gun can still fits the holster like the day I got it, will not come out if the holster by itself if turned upside down. The gun still clicks into the horsehide like it was Kydex. If it has lost any proper fitment I do not see it and am not aware of it. IMHO cowhide is a different story! Horsehide just retains its shape and size many times better than cowhide does.

I do agree that many holster's are built to accommodate a family of guns. Take 1911's for instance.... they are made by many many company's and may vary a bit which would explain the tension screw - got it. When I buy a holster, it is custom made for one gun and one gun only - not a family of guns - hence it fits precisely.

I can only comment on my own experiences. I have had more holsters over the 50 years I've been totting than I care to admit (lol) and have never found better than Kramer's Horsehide. I am aware I sometimes (many times when it comes to this) sound like I own the company or I have stock in it - I have no association with them at all - they wouldn't know me if they ran me over. I have no axe to grind with other holster makers either. I doubt there is a main stream Maker's holster I have not tried at some point. Many are very well made and are of high quality but none have ever been quite up to my standards.

When I first started carrying, I did not want to nor could I spend the money on what I thought was just hype. Over the years I kept trying this one and that one in my quest for the perfect holster. Finally and when I got the Horsehide from Kramer my search ended. I don't know about any other brand of Horsehide holsters as I have not had any so I wish Gene good luck and hope his holsters sell well for him. He has a reputable company, makes descent quality and his wares are reasonably priced. For someone who wants an off the shelf holster, few are better than DeSantis.

What else can I say..... I am OCD about this stuff.

 

[rednichols]

Chief38 you had me on board all the way through your post, until you dropped the phrase 'off the shelf'. Did you know that even Sparks keeps inventory? That is, their products can be 'off the shelf'. Holster sales are nearly all online these days, I could find no stocking dealers in the L.A. area when I visited in 2015.

On the other hand, Gene DeSantis has told me he will NOT be carrying any inventory of his horsehide line. All will be made for their orders, and posted within a week (or two at most).

Don't ever get the idea that any maker has built your holster 'custom' for you. I was a one-man hand maker myself for the last decade of my career (prior working with the larger makers who produced upwards of 40 million holsters in that time), and can tell you that making a hundred of the same holsters are once, is identical to making them one at a time, as for constructing them. It just doesn't take as long!

Here's a batch from my shop; every one was identical to the other; except I had to hand cut them (so true them up to the pattern afterwards) while every maker of any size including Kramer die-cuts theirs. As they should. The image is dated May 2019, I retired Jan 2020.

 

[BigMuddy]

Red may not be able to promote his line here but I can.



Horsehide at its finest.

Dan

 

[chief38]

Chief38 you had me on board all the way through your post, until you dropped the phrase 'off the shelf'. Did you know that even Sparks keeps inventory? That is, their products can be 'off the shelf'. Holster sales are nearly all online these days, I could find no stocking dealers in the L.A. area when I visited in 2015.

On the other hand, Gene DeSantis has told me he will NOT be carrying any inventory of his horsehide line. All will be made for their orders, and posted within a week (or two at most).

Don't ever get the idea that any maker has built your holster 'custom' for you. I was a one-man hand maker myself for the last decade of my career (prior working with the larger makers who produced upwards of 40 million holsters in that time), and can tell you that making a hundred of the same holsters are once, is identical to making them one at a time, as for constructing them. It just doesn't take as long!

Here's a batch from my shop; every one was identical to the other; except I had to hand cut them (so true them up to the pattern afterwards) while every maker of any size including Kramer die-cuts theirs. As they should. The image is dated May 2019, I retired Jan 2020.

Well, I am a businessman at heart and I would have to agree with your assessment, at least for identical and popular models of handguns. I had a few Milt Sparks and Bruce Nelson custom made holsters, made to my specific specifications back in the day. The holsters took months to arrive and they were (to the best of my knowledge) a one of a kind true custom rigs. Now you might be correct in that the customization was added onto a holster they had in stock - that I do not know. Back when I ordered from Nelson and Sparks they were small manufacturers and I used to speak with Bruce Nelson on a regular basis until his untimely demise. BTW, Gene has always succeeded and has had a good and lucrative business for many years on Long Island where I used to live. I've actually met him a few times (many years ago) and I have always liked his company (like I said, I own a bunch of his products). I'm sure he will put out a good Horsehide product, I was just stating my little nit-picky "OCD" preferences. I am a very precise and picky individual. As my wife says to me all the time, "I guess it's not easy being you". I know and fully acknowledge I am a P.I.T.A. at times, but that is exactly what makes me good at the things I do! At heart I am a Perfectionist.

I was in my own business for many years on Long Island and I did custom manufacturing. Other than for a customer with repeating monthly orders for the same product, we rarely kept product on the shelf as we never knew what a customer would order in the future. My customers kept evolving and constantly required different products. Just when I though a trend was developing, things would change once again. Yes, we did stock some of the more basic & less expensive products but that was not the focus of my business and certainly not the norm. We were know in my industry as a true custom manufacturer and the majority or our work was high end, one of a kind, unique items. I let my competition make the run of the mill common products and they competed against each other - not me.

 

[shawn mccarver]

I like Gene Desantis, and he (his company) makes fine holsters. And, he says that any holster in his catalog can be made in horsehide, not just the couple that are pictured in the horsehide entry in the online catalog.

That said, if you want horsehide, and you want it fast, no one, and I mean no one, is better than Ken Null for quality and speed of getting the order. I usually talk to Ken on the phone, and the holster is at my doorstep within a week. And, he is a genuinely nice guy. He never runs down other holster makers. And, he will accommodate a custom, non-catalog request.

So, thumbs up for Desantis and Null.

 

[Malysh]

Ken Null was in Hanover, PA. for years before he moved to GA. I've lived in the Harrisburg area, about 45 minutes from Hanover, for 50 years.

Good guy, good products.

 

[Malysh]

He never runs down other holster makers.

Unlike someone we know.