getting a ffl

[erick1987]

so I am thinking about getting a ffl. I live in Illinois and am not sure of all the rules and regulations. I have been on the atf website and read through all of it which is very confusing about having books and a place of business, which I would run from my house. I don't really plan on making much of a business out of it. more so for myself and selling to family and friends. if anyone can shed some light on this for me it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mkk41]

The ATF is only a small part of it. Not familiar with Ill. laws , but ya gotta get city/town/county state approval and meet zoning regs. AFAIK , you need a separate entranced fixed place of retail business with posted hours that you are open to the public. The local police chief will have to sign off on it and they'll probably have a few city council meetings about it where your neighbors will cry they don't want a gun shop in they're neighborhood.

 

[Grayfox]

Plus you have to have the proper business licence(s) and a state sales tax number.

Basicly, unless you plan to open a full time gun shop and make a living at it, it ain't worth the time, trouble and expense.

 

[Jebus35745]

I had a C&R license and it was OK cause I could get guns shipped to me if old enough. Try to buy or sell at a gun show, no one wanted to give their drivers license to a stranger. Don't blame them. Got rid of it and just use my local FFL if I buy one. Actually would like to buy local so I can see the condition of the gun and check the timing. Some thoughts for you, Larry

 

[pharmer]

These days, a type 01 FFL is a major commitment. I gave up in 1995 here in FL, I can't imagine it's easier in Il. Joe

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

In other words you want to become a kitchen table gun dealer. Back in the 80's and 90's everyone and their brother had FFL's and did exactly what you want to do. I was great as my Doctor had one and I could get guns at dealer cost. This was before the net when we used to drool over shotgun news and flyers from places like Natchez Shooter Supply. GOt some nice things at good prices back then.
Dem days are pretty much gone forever. The ATF tightened up the rules in an attempt to eliminate the kitchen table dealers and made it so complicated that unless you were a brick and mortar shop or Spent a substantial time running it as your primary business it just wasn't worth the hassle. The two FFL's I used let theirs lapse in the late 90's and I was relegated to paying "list" with the rest of the unwashed
The C&L was a response for the hard core collectors. If you really want to do it, I suppose you could but me, for the liability and recordkeeping requirements, I wouldn't do it on a bet. Don't want ATF to show up unnanounced and want to look at my books and inspect my house without warrants-which is what they can do to any FFL holder.
Sorry but you asked.

 

[handejector]

Prior posts here are correct- up to a point.
It is true that "kitchen table dealers" faded away by the hundreds in prior decades.
The internet has brought a huge upsurge of mail order and other sales between people that have never met.

In my experience, ATF is at the very least agreeable to "home dealers".
The first step is to see if your local government will allow you to run a mail order business and grant you a business license. The ATF does require that you be able to get one. They'll also require you to get any/all required state licenses and a sales tax account.
I would STRESS the mail order part when trying for the business license. You could claim no walk-in traffic and NO signs. You might need to claim you will be open by appointment only during your regular business hours.

LOTS of people work from home in this internet age, so many licenses are given for home businesses. Traffic and signs in residential neighborhoods are what the zoning board hates.

You do NOT have to have a storefront.
You do NOT have to be open to retail walk-in traffic.
You DO have to get by the local zoning laws and get the business license. Figure it out.
If you can get the business license, you can get all the other paper IF the local Chief LEO will sign off on it.
The local LEO? You MIGHT need to talk to him. I sent the sheriff a brief letter explaining my intent to deal in collectibles.

 

[Gunslinger808]

Yeah, handejector nailed it.
The biggest problem you'll have is local zoning ordnances.
If you can get approval from your city, or live in an unincorperated area you should be fine with the rest.

 

[H Richard]

Handejector included most of it, but since the BATF "requires" you to be a "business", you must also get a sales tax number and file quarterly (or more frequently if you earn enough ) sales reports and collect sales tax. You do have to designate that portion of your house that will be the "business", and you are subject to unannounced BATF inspections of your record books. If you note my location is also West Central IL, so if you are in or near Quincy send me a PM, we can discuss an individual that did just that and what he went through. A C&R might accomplish what your intentions are.

 

[handejector]

Handejector included most of it, but since the BATF "requires" you to be a "business", you must also get a sales tax number

Should I talk louder?

The first step is to see if your local government will allow you to run a mail order business and grant you a business license. The ATF does require that you be able to get one. They'll also require you to get any/all required state licenses and a sales tax account.

Also-
They can only inspect your records during business hours- the ones YOU set in the application.
Otherwise, they need a warrant to enter.

 

[cowart]

so I am thinking about getting a ffl. I live in Illinois and am not sure of all the rules and regulations.

Trying to handle an FFL without knowing the rules and regulations is not a good idea.

If you are only going to buy a dozen or so guns per year, it would be far easier and cheaper to just go through an existing "kitchen table" dealer, rather than actually becoming such a dealer.

Here is a list of friendly Illinois FFL dealers who will process a gun transfer for as little as $10
FFL Guide for State

 

[snake803]

The ATF is only a small part of it. Not familiar with Ill. laws , but ya gotta get city/town/county state approval and meet zoning regs. AFAIK , you need a separate entranced fixed place of retail business with posted hours that you are open to the public. The local police chief will have to sign off on it and they'll probably have a few city council meetings about it where your neighbors will cry they don't want a gun shop in they're neighborhood.

No separate entrance required....


"You do have to designate that portion of your house that will be the "business".

Any place on the property (street address) that is on the FFL (licensed location)is subject to inspection...

JIM................

 

[pace40]

Quite possibly a regional thing but I was not permitted to obtain an FFL without a "storefront" location with "posted business hours open to the public". Now... that location was determined by zoning regs but the kitchen table dealer idea was shot down during my first conversation with BATFE. Also, the license was not issued until tax ID, and state license was obtained and the local zoning officer signed off on the business and the business was registered with the Dept of State.

Then again, my business structure is an LLC. The business entity had to exist in order to file the application and that may have contributed to any requirements.

 

[erick1987]

Yea. I think i'll wait to get my ffl. I do want to own my own business one day and I think I'll wait till that time comes to get it. Thanks everyone for the input.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

 

[zoom6zoom]

I don't really plan on making much of a business out of it. more so for myself and selling to family and friends.

If you give this reason to the ATF inspector, your application is sure to be denied.

 

[yaktamer]

Also keep in mind that if you live in a development with an HOA, a firearms business might be prohibited by the CC&Rs.

 

[mkk41]

Prior posts here are correct- up to a point.

You do NOT have to have a storefront.
You do NOT have to be open to retail walk-in traffic.

You DO have to get by the local zoning laws and get the business license. Figure it out.

Well , OP didn't say exactly what state he was in , and in this state , you gotta have the top 2 before you will get the licenses. I believe there are storage/security requirements too. And around here , you have to get a "License to Sell Firearms" , issued by the county sheriff.
And you have to get set up with the PA state police for calling into the Instant Check system to do required background check. Each check costs $5 and ya have to send the money in monthly.

I'm betting states like NY , NJ , and other anti-states have far more & tighter hoops to jump thru.

 

[Lost Lake]

Well , OP didn't say exactly what state he was in , and in this state

I believe he did say which state he lived in ....

so I am thinking about getting a ffl. I live in Illinois and .........

.

 

[mkk41]

I believe he did say which state he lived in ....






.

Oops!

Well , hope the whole state of Ill. isn't as bad as Chicago/Cook County.

 

[ohiobuckeye]

Prior posts here are correct- up to a point.
It is true that "kitchen table dealers" faded away by the hundreds in prior decades.
The internet has brought a huge upsurge of mail order and other sales between people that have never met.

In my experience, ATF is at the very least agreeable to "home dealers".
The first step is to see if your local government will allow you to run a mail order business and grant you a business license. The ATF does require that you be able to get one. They'll also require you to get any/all required state licenses and a sales tax account.
I would STRESS the mail order part when trying for the business license. You could claim no walk-in traffic and NO signs. You might need to claim you will be open by appointment only during your regular business hours.

LOTS of people work from home in this internet age, so many licenses are given for home businesses. Traffic and signs in residential neighborhoods are what the zoning board hates.

You do NOT have to have a storefront.
You do NOT have to be open to retail walk-in traffic.
You DO have to get by the local zoning laws and get the business license. Figure it out.
If you can get the business license, you can get all the other paper IF the local Chief LEO will sign off on it.
The local LEO? You MIGHT need to talk to him. I sent the sheriff a brief letter explaining my intent to deal in collectibles.

I think this is probably the most accurate description of FFL requirements I have ever seen posted on this forum. The "You must have a storefront" has been repeatedly stated contrary to my own observations...To the best of my knowledge, no storefront is required by BATFE. Perhaps by some states, but not by BATFE. The only requirement they put on me is to list a specific time "window" during the week, to be available for inspection. Whether that is a nationwide policy, or a request by the agents in this district, I have no idea.
I do have a Ohio state vendors license and sales tax account, but at no time during the process of obtaining my FFL, nor at any time since, including BATFE inspections, have I ever been asked by BATF if I had any state tax license or account. I did not even apply for the state license until I had my FFL in hand....no point for me to get one without the FFL. They did ask about local zoning requirements which are nonexistant where I live.