Denver Dick
US Veteran
IMHO, there are Men of Steel, Metal Men, and, well . . plastic guys. 
They all get the bullet down range, just by different means. 
They all get the bullet down range, just by different means. 
Getting Sick of Guys With Plastic Pistols...
- Thread starter Stargater
- Start date
Taurus bid doesn't meet specs, or Taurus doesn't bid . . .
(Hi Point would be cheaper than Taurus)
oneounceload
Member
I could easily post pics of shotguns and rifles that ARE works of art.....but this is a handgun forum (and I'm getting tired of getting spanked for minor infractions!)
Google Peter Hofer and his "Hummingbird" double rifle
Doug M.
Member
Don't worry about what others say or the reason for what they value. Your opinion, like mine, has a commonality with certain body parts.
Me? I was issued two different 3rd generation S&Ws. The first was deeply flawed, as were the majority of the ones we had. The second worked ok, but I saw a staggering number fail at in-service with relatively few rounds through them, and at least one was broken the day it was issued. A friends agency had 3rd generation 9mms - they rarely worked. They are not sacred. The Glock 21s with ambi mag releases were sub-optimal, too - the majority had to be replaced.
These sorts of events are among the reasons that qualified professionals with real experience recommend 500-1000 round testing with service ammo. I did that (about 700 rounds) when I went back to an issued platform (G21). The G22/23 models are well known for being unreliable, especially with a light attached. I would neither have one nor allow them to be carried. My G17s have been great. My G26 was not; the G33, which is unpleasant to shoot, has been. The first generation of M&P 9mms were subject to randomly poor accuracy. Lots of mechanical devices have flaws, and need to be tested as a result. If a S&W 3rd generation auto works for you, have right the heck at it.
My firearms are for personal defense (and previously, duty). It's all about fighting. Period. I need them to work reliably and as accurately as I can shoot (the limiting factor) more than anything else. I have one lever action, a customized 30-30. I used it as a patrol rifle for a while. I have one semi-auto rifle, a BCM AR, set up for personal defense. My shotgun, the same. I can't see any reason for a barrel longer than 18" on a shotgun, and an issued one for patrol should be 14". The AR should probably be 11.5" or so, with a suppressor. They are not art - they are tools for a serious purpose. I rarely do anything that is inconsistent with being armed. In fact, anything inconsistent with being armed is probably an optional activity in which I will not engage; I can think of no excuse for being willingly unarmed. Doing so is as foreign to me as making rocket fuel - it's utterly weird. Most of my decisions about guns are based on the ability to carry and use them all the time. A full sized metal gun is not what I prefer.
I do appreciate (and sometimes feel real jealousy about) the photos from Doc44 and others. None of those firearms are worth the cost to me. That does not mean I can't appreciate the workmanship and appearance of a 5" M29, or that 3.5" LE special order .44 Special shown and discussed in proper sub-forum. I had a really nice custom 1911 for several years, a Hilton Yam 10-8. With anything approaching standard pressure 230 grain service ammo, including 230 grain gold dots, it was a stellar performer, reliable through a few thousand rounds. I like a nice 1911. I cannot objectively justify one - that $5K or so will buy a new M&P 9mm of some size (or maybe two, just for redundancy), all the work for a red dot, holster, and training and a LOT of ammo. From any realistic analysis, that is a FAR better use of my money.
To the extent I would be willing to admit looking at and fondling anything based on cosmetics, my preferences run more to topics not safe for discussion here.
Me? I was issued two different 3rd generation S&Ws. The first was deeply flawed, as were the majority of the ones we had. The second worked ok, but I saw a staggering number fail at in-service with relatively few rounds through them, and at least one was broken the day it was issued. A friends agency had 3rd generation 9mms - they rarely worked. They are not sacred. The Glock 21s with ambi mag releases were sub-optimal, too - the majority had to be replaced.
These sorts of events are among the reasons that qualified professionals with real experience recommend 500-1000 round testing with service ammo. I did that (about 700 rounds) when I went back to an issued platform (G21). The G22/23 models are well known for being unreliable, especially with a light attached. I would neither have one nor allow them to be carried. My G17s have been great. My G26 was not; the G33, which is unpleasant to shoot, has been. The first generation of M&P 9mms were subject to randomly poor accuracy. Lots of mechanical devices have flaws, and need to be tested as a result. If a S&W 3rd generation auto works for you, have right the heck at it.
My firearms are for personal defense (and previously, duty). It's all about fighting. Period. I need them to work reliably and as accurately as I can shoot (the limiting factor) more than anything else. I have one lever action, a customized 30-30. I used it as a patrol rifle for a while. I have one semi-auto rifle, a BCM AR, set up for personal defense. My shotgun, the same. I can't see any reason for a barrel longer than 18" on a shotgun, and an issued one for patrol should be 14". The AR should probably be 11.5" or so, with a suppressor. They are not art - they are tools for a serious purpose. I rarely do anything that is inconsistent with being armed. In fact, anything inconsistent with being armed is probably an optional activity in which I will not engage; I can think of no excuse for being willingly unarmed. Doing so is as foreign to me as making rocket fuel - it's utterly weird. Most of my decisions about guns are based on the ability to carry and use them all the time. A full sized metal gun is not what I prefer.
I do appreciate (and sometimes feel real jealousy about) the photos from Doc44 and others. None of those firearms are worth the cost to me. That does not mean I can't appreciate the workmanship and appearance of a 5" M29, or that 3.5" LE special order .44 Special shown and discussed in proper sub-forum. I had a really nice custom 1911 for several years, a Hilton Yam 10-8. With anything approaching standard pressure 230 grain service ammo, including 230 grain gold dots, it was a stellar performer, reliable through a few thousand rounds. I like a nice 1911. I cannot objectively justify one - that $5K or so will buy a new M&P 9mm of some size (or maybe two, just for redundancy), all the work for a red dot, holster, and training and a LOT of ammo. From any realistic analysis, that is a FAR better use of my money.
To the extent I would be willing to admit looking at and fondling anything based on cosmetics, my preferences run more to topics not safe for discussion here.
Runs With Gun
Member
Only one plastic gun is in my current defensive lineup.
I have never liked Glocks.....
I have never liked Glocks.....
