Ghost Gun?

BenelliSlim70

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So I know some models have the serial numbers on the breach end of the cylinder, but the cylinder can be swapped out. Are the serial numbers on the frame underneath the grips? If not it would seem this to be an unserialized gun. Have any of you seen a revolver like this without out the plate with it’s serial numbers on it?
 
S&W places the SN on the bottom of the grip frame for revolvers.

Not sure I have ever heard of a SN on a cylinder.

The SN would be under the grips.
 
S&W places the SN on the bottom of the grip frame for revolvers.

Not sure I have ever heard of a SN on a cylinder.

In addition to the butt, serial numbers used to found on the cylinder, barrel flat, yoke arm, and (usually) on the interior of the right stock panel.
 
In addition to the butt, serial numbers used to found on the cylinder, barrel flat, yoke arm, and (usually) on the interior of the right stock panel.

Learn something new everyday.

I know I have seen them on the frame from time to time on certain models and of the older grips, but those aren't attached.

The other locations must be before any of the revolvers I own.

Wonder what the years are for when they stopped putting them on the other locations?
 
This is addressed in the To IDENTIFY your Gun sticky at the top of this section.

2. Serial Number
After we know what TYPE you have, we need a serial number!
See the S on the gun below?
That IS part of the serial number! We need any letters that are with the serial number!
We DON'T need the actual number if it bothers you to post it.
Post the number below as S 880XXX
We DO need the EXACT number of digits.
The one TRUE place you can be sure of reading the serial number is the BUTT of the gun:

2f4c52df675dc98e7c33021a7df8b233.jpg


A few S&W models have the Serial Number on the front gripstrap which faces the trigger guard because the grips covered the bottom of the butt:

35e93fbb36660c42a23b858985c4209c.jpg


Every S&W revolver had the serial number in one of those places!

Lots of sellers are too lazy (or ignorant) to remove target grips to show the serial number.
 
Hi Tom, do you know which models had the SN there on the gripstrap, and when it ended? I've never seen that before; love to learn new things in this field.

Todd

That would primarily be some pre-WWII revolvers built on the I frame, typically in .32 S&W Long but also .38 S&W (NOT .38 Special) and .22 LR. Top-break Target single shots in .22LR were also marked on the frontstrap. Guns that did not come with extended stocks from the factory were generally stamped on the bottom of the grip frame as usual.

Below from front to back are a Regulation Police in .32 Long and a so-called "Bekeart" .22/32 HFT (Heavy Frame Target) in .22LR, both built on the I frame. At the top is a 3rd Model Single Shot in .22LR.

2025-10-03-23-02_p3440422.webp

2025-10-03-23-03_p3440423.webp

Off the top of my head I couldn't definitively say when stamping the frontstrap ended, but it was before WWII.
 
In addition to the butt, serial numbers used to found on the cylinder, barrel flat, yoke arm, and (usually) on the interior of the right stock panel.
In pre model number guns in addition to above, also the ejector ( the surface facing forward that interacts with the cylinder- hard to see !)
in SOME models serial was additionally stamped in yoke cut, but this was NOT universal, and more often, yoke cut numbers were what are called assembly numbers - internal factory tracking numbers to keep fitted parts together during the run down the assembly line.
I don’t know how many times ( countless hundreds over the years) I have seen an assembly number misrepresented as a serial number.
 
This is addressed in the To IDENTIFY your Gun sticky at the top of this section.

2. Serial Number
After we know what TYPE you have, we need a serial number!
See the S on the gun below?
That IS part of the serial number! We need any letters that are with the serial number!
We DON'T need the actual number if it bothers you to post it.
Post the number below as S 880XXX
We DO need the EXACT number of digits.
The one TRUE place you can be sure of reading the serial number is the BUTT of the gun:

2f4c52df675dc98e7c33021a7df8b233.jpg


A few S&W models have the Serial Number on the front gripstrap which faces the trigger guard because the grips covered the bottom of the butt:

35e93fbb36660c42a23b858985c4209c.jpg


Every S&W revolver had the serial number in one of those places!

Lots of sellers are too lazy (or ignorant) to remove target grips to show the serial number.
The seller said these grips are oversized I guess and so the serial number is on the frame underneath the grips and they confirm this course. They don’t show a picture of that. Seems like that’s what you would do. I have seen pictures of guns completely stripped down.
 
So I know some models have the serial numbers on the breach end of the cylinder, but the cylinder can be swapped out. Are the serial numbers on the frame underneath the grips? If not it would seem this to be an unserialized gun. Have any of you seen a revolver like this without out the plate with its serial numbers on it?
Trust me when I say S&W doesn’t allow their revolvers to leave the factory without a stamped serial number. The formal serial number is always stamped on the bottom of the grip heel. Prior to 1950 or so, S&W stamped the serial number on a number of locations: The grip heel; the rear edge of the cylinder, the rear face of the yoke; the front face of the extractor; inside the extractor shroud; and along the hump of the hammer.
 
In the olden days S&W put the serial number in several places. When soft fitting ended in 1957 mostly the serial number was only on the butt of the gun. Looked for a thread on other locations, but could not find the thread I wanted. So besides the butt, serial numbers were on the cylinder, the barrel, the yoke, the extractor behind the star, and the right grip. In the days of the Triple-Lock also on the 3rd lock. So at one time up to seven locations for the serial number.
 
Hondo44 has posted this, it used to be a “sticky” on the old blue forum.


Serial Numbers Locations



From Hondo44





Here are the 6 or 7 (Triple Lock models only) pre war fixed sight frame serial # locationswhich are also the locations remaining after WW II thru ~1956 to look for (not including the 3 stamped serial # locations for pre war and early post war Transitional models with pre war target sights.)



NOTE: Always use optical magnification including a flashlight when looking at or for serialnumbers to observe the information accurately.

Observing a serial # for accuracy or even existence, especially on penciled stocks, requires an attitude that it is there!



1. Grip frame butt* (prefixed by a letter(s) following WWII) - or forestrap* on I frames/single shots with grips that cover the butt

2. Barrel - bottom of barrel or in extractor shroud

3. Yoke - on rear face (except the .32 Model 1896) only visible thru a chamber with a flashlight

4. Extractor star – backside (which is actually the side facing the muzzle).

5. Cylinder - rear face

6. Right stock only - on back, scratched or penciled depending on vintage and stock material, stamped after 1929, (except most post war target grips because individual fitting not required.)

7. Mid-lock cam plate, backside with cyl open – “Triple Locks” only, in any caliber (up to all 5 digits).”

Also this,

“…
Serial Numbers declining locations



Jim Carter



Hondo44;141858767 said:
DECREASING SERIAL # LOCATIONS:

The number of serial # locations or if a Model/dash # is stamped on a particular S&W Hand Ejector has more to do with where it was in the production/assembly stages then when change orders were issued, therefore as we've learned to expect with S&W, there are great variances and exceptions galore.



Officially, on May 3, 1957 S&W eliminated the Soft Fitting Operation: So it generally corresponds with the model number designation stamping, change order June 12, 1957 but didn’t take affect for many months. It was no longer necessary to routinely stamp the serial number on the barrel, cylinder & yoke arm rear surface and serial #s still exist at those locations or not, over a transition period. So guns in process or in inventory as of 5/3/57 can still have more than 3 and up to 6 serial # locations, and guns shipped after this time may have some of the former number locations because assembly was done over time and as inventory from the old process was used up.



The 6 serial # locations were down to only 3 left on the majority of models (but not all) from c. late 1957 to 1959 which are:



1. Grip frame butt (K & N frames prefixed by a letter(s) following WWII)



2. Extractor star - backside



3. Right stock – backside (except most post war target grips because individual fitting not required.)





FRAME YOKE CUT STAMPING of the assembly (work) # vs. serial #:

changes after Model # stamping got more confusing. When Model Number stamping began some months to a year after being ordered June 12, 1957, the serial number was not yet stamped in the frame ‘yoke cut’ on the frame side of the yoke hinge. But in the l958-1959 time period as the use of target grips became more common and if the revolver was ordered with or was standard with target stocks which covered the butt serial #, the serial number is stamped in the yoke cut of the frame. The assembly number would have also been in this area, as it was stamped on the gun long before the revolver was serial numbered.



But when the serial # was stamped on the frame in the 'yoke cut', except on the smaller frames at first where it just didn't fit well, the frame assembly # from the 'yoke cut' was moved to the left side of the grip frame. The 3 assembly # locations became the yoke, left side of grip frame (later the right side), and backside of side plate. However, the post 1959-60 yoke cut serial # placement on the later guns is the reason for many pre 1957 guns to be incorrectly registered by the useless assembly # on the frame in the yoke cut.



Therefore by about the end of 1959, serial # locations went up to 4:



1. Grip frame butt (K & N frames prefixed by a letter(s) following WWII)



2. Frame in yoke cut



3. Extractor star until ~ 1980 when the new extractor star shape was introduced.



4. Back of right stock, until ~ 1979 when no longer hand fitted, (except most post war target grips because individual fitting not required).



Note: due to parts inventory, late-built-guns-for-their-serial #, etc., we see many anomalies of cyls and barrels still serial #d well into the early 1960s. Revolvers that were reworked during manufacture (not returned after shipment for repair or refinish) will often have the serial number stamped on the rear surface of the cylinder and rarely on the barrel. Reworking happened quite often from what I have observed for the Model 29. These guns often have a lightly stamped R on the left side of the grip frame (no date):

…”

Kevin
 
The only official SN is typically on the bottom of the butt (which is why one must be careful when converting a square to round butt or adding a lanyard ring; damaging that serial # is a big no-no. Some models have it located on the side where it is visible with the cylinder open; this considered a convenience to avoid removing the grips.

It must be on a part that cannot be removed and replaced; I think the other locations provided were part of what was called "soft fitting" to keep the parts together. Some folks will not post or show the SN for reasons they value; the lack of it in the advertisement to which you refer is not misconduct but a preference.
 
I bought a nice flat latch Model 36 from a young man who was a home FFL holder, primarily ordered new guns for customers. He was selling this for a neighbor and luckily as he was filling out the paperwork I realized he had no idea the serial number was under the Herrett stocks it wore and almost put in the assembly numbers. He didn't have a clue it was there.
 
I bought a nice flat latch Model 36 from a young man who was a home FFL holder, primarily ordered new guns for customers. He was selling this for a neighbor and luckily as he was filling out the paperwork I realized he had no idea the serial number was under the Herrett stocks it wore and almost put in the assembly numbers. He didn't have a clue it was there.
So true. In this modern era, most of the people who knew their way around a revolver are retired ! When my older brother was a police officer and the range officer for his small department, a lot of young guys would call him when they took a revolver off a suspect to find out how to unload it!
 

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