Just picked up a 1000 Winchester copper plated 158 grain 357 bullets...cheap like me. Actually paid about 5 bucks. I've always heard that those bullets were pretty soft and lead bores. Any experience with these? I wanted to load them in 357 but remembered the stories(I think).they kind of remind me of the Lyman 358 429 bullet but with a concave base. Should I just load them in 38's? I also got a box of 500 lead 180 gr. 357 bullets...plain base and a couple hundred 160 gr. GC lead bullets same caliber.All the lead bullets will go in 38's but was hoping to use Winchester's in 357.Nice looking bullets.Any experiences with them?
Got a Bunch of Bullets
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DeplorabusUnum
Member
I don't have that particular bullet, but I shoot Berry's plated bullets. They recommend you not exceed 1250 ft/sec... 1500 ft/sec for the thick plated bullets. They also caution not to over crimp and damage the plating.
The lead bullets I'd load as 38s. The ones with gas checks you could push harder, IMO. I shoot lead powder coated gas checked bullets out of my Henry rifle at 1600-1700 ft/sec with no problems.
The lead bullets I'd load as 38s. The ones with gas checks you could push harder, IMO. I shoot lead powder coated gas checked bullets out of my Henry rifle at 1600-1700 ft/sec with no problems.
I have loaded more than a few copper plated (and powder coated) 158 grain .357 bullets. As long as you don't push them godawful fast they shoot just fine plus cleaning the weapon afterwards is much easier. (I didn't know Winchester made plated bullets, I thought theirs were either lead or jacketed.)
just plain joe
Member
I have loaded Winchester copper-jacketed bullets to .357 Magnum velocities when I was heavy into that caliber, and you could obtain those specific bullets. You mention "copper-plated". I don't recall Winchester making "copper-plated", only copper jacketed. I may be wrong though.
I normally used 2400, Unique, and Herco. I adhered to the loads specified in the Hornady, Speer, and Sierra manuals and had no problems. I wish I could be more specific but I now mainly concentrate on .38 Special, .41 Magnum, 9 m//m, and .45 Auto loads now and haven't loaded .357's in a while.
One thing I do recall is the need for magnum primers when using 2400. With them there is little to no unburned powder beneath the extractor star.
I normally used 2400, Unique, and Herco. I adhered to the loads specified in the Hornady, Speer, and Sierra manuals and had no problems. I wish I could be more specific but I now mainly concentrate on .38 Special, .41 Magnum, 9 m//m, and .45 Auto loads now and haven't loaded .357's in a while.
One thing I do recall is the need for magnum primers when using 2400. With them there is little to no unburned powder beneath the extractor star.
cowboy4evr
Member
I will tell you that I load my 357 magnums with my own cast bullets and yes , I do sometimes I push them . I really like a good near max load of 2400 or H110 on my plain base cast bullets . I don't have a leading problem .
BUT ---- I have checked the cylinder throats for proper size and open them up if necessary . Then ---- there's what I call " the S&W choke " where the barrel threads onto the frame . I have fire lapped the barrel on almost every S&W that I own . My barrels shoot very clean except for some powder residue and an occasional tiny flake of lead , I mean very tiny . My accuracy is just fine as well . I did have to purchase a set of pin gauges and the rest was a learning curve , but to me worth it . Regards Paul
BUT ---- I have checked the cylinder throats for proper size and open them up if necessary . Then ---- there's what I call " the S&W choke " where the barrel threads onto the frame . I have fire lapped the barrel on almost every S&W that I own . My barrels shoot very clean except for some powder residue and an occasional tiny flake of lead , I mean very tiny . My accuracy is just fine as well . I did have to purchase a set of pin gauges and the rest was a learning curve , but to me worth it . Regards Paul
I also have never seen Winchester copper-plated bullets. Were these made recently or are they old? Do you have photos of them?
I do know Winchester used to load these same bulles in the 357. I for some reason can't remember what Win called copper plated bullets and shotgun pellets. Age I guess. Would say in the 60's 70's before Win Super XX in shotshells. I just thought I had read that these bullets leaded badly in the 357. I know the 357 leaded pretty frequently back then. As far as jacketed bullets I have a fair amount of them. I happen to use a bunch of Herco. Bought an 8 pounder at a garage sale...saves my Unique. I also have plenty of 2400. If I can get a good picture I will post it. I am NOT a photograher!
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I would do the opposite.
No reason not to load those 180gr lead bullets and especially those 160gr GC bullets in the .357 Magnum. I would use the plated bullets for .38 Special ammo.
You will really like shooting those bullets in the Magnum.
venomballistics
Member
I think they called them "Luballoy" coated.
Oh these bullets are definitely a bit older. Each box of 500 was marked 14.50. The boxes are hand printed in black Win 38-158 SWC- 500. One box was marked down to 10 dollars...bullets SWC 3 grooves with small hollow base The other bullets are marked.38 180 TC and the newspaper packing in the box is dated 2003 and made somewhere in Pa...Oh Indianola Pa. Can't guarantee the company but Penn Bullets LTD I think.
Yep ...Winchester's copper plating was called Lubaloy. Made good waterfowl loads
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I shot some way back when. They were COPPER WASHED. Not copper plated.
You could see the lead through the "wash". They leaded up barrels like a sewer pipe. It was gimmick that didn't last long. Iffen I had had a bunch of those bullets now. I'd load em to wadcutter speeds in .38 spl..
That's what I kind of remember and the reason for my question. I was out in the grudge a little bit ago...found about a 1/2 box of the 357 Winchester loads with those bullets. I remember shooting some of them through my old 3 1/2 inch 27 years ago. Was the reason I got a Lewis lead remover. I will just have to load in the 38 Spec. Not like I don't have enough bullets...but 1700 bullets for 10 bucks for all was a no brainer. I traded another500 rd box of 125 gr JHPs and another box of the Winchester to a fellow for 2- 2cavity SAECO 45 Colt bullet molds. Both new.I did have more in those bullets though...20 dollars
TV
For some odd reason I never shot a lot of copper 158 gr. bullets out of my
M19 or 686 revolvers, except for the very old Speer 160 gr SJSP bullets for Nevada deer.
As long as the side walls of the bullet are plated or copper coated, I don't
think that leading the barrel will be a problem, from all the loading that I have done, with real copper bullets.
I have never fired any plated bullets in any of my revolvers, as yet.
However I have fired plated out of my 5" 9mm pistol at 1350fps and did not have
any leading or plating particles hitting my paper targets.
If however they are the copper washed bullets they will make a nice
"Target load" for the 38 special around 800fps, I would think,
if you decide to use them up?
Good luck and have fun.
M19 or 686 revolvers, except for the very old Speer 160 gr SJSP bullets for Nevada deer.
As long as the side walls of the bullet are plated or copper coated, I don't
think that leading the barrel will be a problem, from all the loading that I have done, with real copper bullets.
I have never fired any plated bullets in any of my revolvers, as yet.
However I have fired plated out of my 5" 9mm pistol at 1350fps and did not have
any leading or plating particles hitting my paper targets.
If however they are the copper washed bullets they will make a nice
"Target load" for the 38 special around 800fps, I would think,
if you decide to use them up?
Good luck and have fun.
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Copper plated or copper washed, for $5 a thousand, I'd take them either way.
If they are actually the old "Luballoy" (copper washed) bullets they should work great for mid-range 38 special loads.
Heck, these days most of us are paying at least 10 times, and more often 20 times, that price for plain, un-lubed bare lead.
I just bought a thousand 32 cal 100 grain bare lead for 11 cents each and felt lucky to get them.
$5 per thousand for any bullet is a no-brainer. I'd buy 100,000 of them at that price, given the opportunity.
If they are actually the old "Luballoy" (copper washed) bullets they should work great for mid-range 38 special loads.
Heck, these days most of us are paying at least 10 times, and more often 20 times, that price for plain, un-lubed bare lead.
I just bought a thousand 32 cal 100 grain bare lead for 11 cents each and felt lucky to get them.
$5 per thousand for any bullet is a no-brainer. I'd buy 100,000 of them at that price, given the opportunity.
Actually where I made out the best was trading the jacket ed and copper washed bullets for 2 SAECO molds.I'm going to load those bullets in a bunch of 38 brass a fellow gave me. I'm gonna see how they work
Fishinfool
Member
I remember those copper washed (like a .22 lr) bullets loaded in factory Winchester .357 mag. They were very soft, probably swaged. I don't believe the copper was did much of benefit.
I might check and see if they are a nice tight fit thru the throats of the gun you are going to use. If so, maybe fill those lube grooves before you load them, see what kind of accuracy and velocity you can get if and before leading becomes an issue.
Larry
I might check and see if they are a nice tight fit thru the throats of the gun you are going to use. If so, maybe fill those lube grooves before you load them, see what kind of accuracy and velocity you can get if and before leading becomes an issue.
Larry
Don't forget about a picture of the bullets and the target, good or bad.
so wee can see what happened on the outting.
Tight groups.
so wee can see what happened on the outting.
Tight groups.
Well just traded the 160 gr GC bullets for a 1 lb (metal)can of Winchester 540(HS-6) and bought a one pound (metal) can of Winchester 231...for 500 or so 9mm once fired brass. I do not intend to reload ANY 9mms
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Wow, while powder is good to have I don't think I would have traded away 160gr cast bullets with gas checks. They are sorta like gold especially for the price you paid.
I hope that old powder is still viable. It was discontinued many years ago, I'm thinking 1967 but don't hold me to that year. With those metal cans the outside may look good but moisture on the inside can rust the can and corrupt these powder so be careful.
Oh man, those are good bullets you traded lol...
