Got my first Victory but dont kow anything about markings

[66er]

I finally found a Victory model that I could afford. I looked in the standard catalog but can't find anything out about the markings on it. It is a 5" gun with a dark finish not parkerized but seems to be thicker. All numbers match so I don't think it has been through the arsenal. The first marking is on the top of the back strap is reads "UNITED STATES PROPERTY". Left side of frame below cylinder is stamped VEGA SAC CA. Then on the right side it has D broad arrow head D, under that is FTR, under that is 2 upside down u's with a line attached to their bottom like camel humps, under that is another arrow head and 23, last line down is a L. So that is what I know (don't amount to a hill of beans). I hope that one of you knows a little more than me and is willing to spread their wisdom. Thank you in advance. 66er

p.s. It is still in 38 s&w not special.

 

[66er]

I finally found a Victory model that I could afford. I looked in the standard catalog but can't find anything out about the markings on it. It is a 5" gun with a dark finish not parkerized but seems to be thicker. All numbers match so I don't think it has been through the arsenal. The first marking is on the top of the back strap is reads "UNITED STATES PROPERTY". Left side of frame below cylinder is stamped VEGA SAC CA. Then on the right side it has D broad arrow head D, under that is FTR, under that is 2 upside down u's with a line attached to their bottom like camel humps, under that is another arrow head and 23, last line down is a L. So that is what I know (don't amount to a hill of beans). I hope that one of you knows a little more than me and is willing to spread their wisdom. Thank you in advance. 66er

p.s. It is still in 38 s&w not special.

 

[john traveler]

Your Victory model was a Lend-Lease item to the British, as indicated by the caliber and the US PROPERTY markings. The broad arrow indicates Crown ownership. The FTR means "Factory Through Repair", so it was rebuilt in a British arsenal as indicated by the D. The lack of British proof marks means that it was not exported from GB in the 1950s or 1960s. It was imported after the early 1980s when US Federal law required the importer's marks. VEGA SAC CA was the Sacramento, California surplus importer.

 

[Rute Boye]

I would be willing to bet that your Victory was one of guns FTR'd by the Australians in the early-mid 1950s. They must have been put into storage right after the Factory Through Repair, and then sold to the U.S. surplus market by Vega in Sacramento, CA, in the 1990s. I have one that sounds very similar to yours....here's some photos:
http://members.cox.net/bsrobbins/Victory%20-%20FTR/FTR%20stamp.JPG
http://members.cox.net/bsrobbins/Victory%20-%20FTR/right%20side.JPG
http://members.cox.net/bsrobbins/Victory%20-%20FTR/left%20side.JPG

 

[Texas Star]

The DD marks are Australian. But FTR means Factory "Thorough" Repair, not "Through".

This is more than a spelling error on the part of the earlier posters. Thorough means a complete overhaul. Through, although they didn't use that term, might just mean that it had passed through some some arsenal.

Vega was a major importer of these guns some years ago.

They fire the .38 S&W regular cartridge, NOT .38 Special. That ammo is now often hard to find and rather expensive. It is also less potent than .38 Special. But the guns have collector value.

T-Star

 

[66er]

Ok I am a little confused??? One says it is a british lend lease and the other two say it is an austrailian gun. I appreciate all of you posting and trying to help. Is there a good web site for searching for proof marks. Thanks 66er

 

[opoefc]

Your Victory Model never saw Britain, it was an Aussie gun from day one - shipped to Australia by S&W. The above info on the meaning of the Aussie marks is correct. A little side info: When S&W first started doing factory historical letters, the Victory Model letters had a paragraph on where the models were shipped during WW2. Due to a typo, it said 8,000 guns were shipped to Austria, instead of Australia. Austria was part of Nazi Germany, of course! There are pre-Victory model known with Nazi stamps, however they weren't shipped to Germany by S&W, they were guns captured at Dunkirk from the British, and then stamped with Nazi stamps and mostly used for home guard units in Germany.

 

[H Richard]

I also have one of the Australian "Victories", but mine is a Pre Victory, dated to 1941. Has the same FTR, etc. stamping. S/N 833351. Happens to be my only Birth Year revolver. Roy informed me that the stocks (not numbered to gun, but close) could very well be the original type.

 

[bk43]

I believe the "L" on your gun is for the Lithgow arms factory where the FTR was done. I would also expect "MA" for Munitions Australia right after the FTR mark. Could the other markings you describe be a poorly stamped MA followed by two digits?

Bob

 

[66er]

Thank you for replying I don't see a MA anywhere on the gun the only markings are the ones that I posted yesterday. I truly do appreciate all the help. I will try to post photos tomorrow if the camera decides that it doesn't hate me I think that that may be the first outing with the new victory, to take out the nazi camera and put it out of my misery. Thanks again for all the great info 66er.

 

[HarryWatson]

I also have one of these. However, mine has been converted to 22LR by sleeving the cylinder holes, replacing the barrel with a 22 barrel of undetermined make, installing adjustable sights that are different than the standard S&W sights, and replacing the stock grips, or at least the medallions in them, with medallions having a crown.

 

[bk43]

Originally posted by 66er:
Thank you for replying I don't see a MA anywhere on the gun the only markings are the ones that I posted yesterday.

The MA would most likely have been right under the factory "Made in U.S.A.". If that factory marking is clear the MA probably isn't there. Maybe somebody just left it off. You know those damn Aussies, always screwing around.

Bob

 

[eastwind]

I too have a 38 S&W CTG with a 5" barrel. (Bought it back in the 90's) I have been curious about its history and reading the previous thread has given me some idea of where it has been. Mine has the D "arrow" D marks along with FTR/MA54. Below those marks is another "arrow" with an L to the right of it. Below the L is another "arrow" with a 26 below the "arrow". The serial number is 7847XX. I am guessing that this was one of the shipment of 8000 to Australia in April 1941. Am I correct? Any info or ideas? Thanks.

 

[Walter Rego]

Originally posted by opoefc:
Your Victory Model never saw Britain, it was an Aussie gun from day one - shipped to Australia by S&W. The above info on the meaning of the Aussie marks is correct. A little side info: When S&W first started doing factory historical letters, the Victory Model letters had a paragraph on where the models were shipped during WW2. Due to a typo, it said 8,000 guns were shipped to Austria, instead of Australia. Austria was part of Nazi Germany, of course! There are pre-Victory model known with Nazi stamps, however they weren't shipped to Germany by S&W, they were guns captured at Dunkirk from the British, and then stamped with Nazi stamps and mostly used for home guard units in Germany.

Ed, I have one with identical markings to Rute Boye's. The serial number is V175XXX. It also has the VEGA SAC CA import marks. I had Roy Jinks letter it and it shipped on 12/8/42 to the Hartford Ordnance Depot, Springfield, MA. The letter goes on to say that the Hartford Ordnance Depot was the Eastern Regional Lend Lease Distribution Center. I would assume from there they were either shipped directly to Australia or picked up by Australian agents and transported to Australia.

 

[opoefc]

Walter Rego, It is my understanding that the Hartford Ordnance Depot shipped the Aussie guns directly to Australia, and after about the first half of 1942 there were no more Aussie shipments. According to Jinks, there were only 8,000 guns sent to Auctralia. Fortunately for us collectors, I think a very large portion of these were imported back to the US by Vega in Sacramento, CA.

 

[aussiedave]

My Aussie marked victory was shipped Jan 44. I think there was more than one batch , some were direct purchase pre-victory's and later ones were Lend-Lease.

 

[KarlJ]

Dave, are your grips smooth or checkered?

 

[aussiedave]

KARLJ
My gun has smooth grips.

 

[garra]

Based on the strings on this forum I left the gun show last weekend with a Victory Model that I had quite a lot of information about. My new (another SW) was an Austrialian Lend Lease revolver in 38 SW, it has gone through the armoury at Lithrow with Factory Thorough Repair. It was imported by Vega in Sacramento. It has a black finish with little signs of being used since it went through the armoury, it sports checkered grips with an SW emblem. The serial is V5590XX, with many of the markings previously mentioned. I did a little research on the markings, the D up arrow D is the Austrialian purchase and issue stamp from the Dept of Defense. I also found out the the MA stamp also refers to the Lithrow Samll Arms Factory. Looking at the markings on my revolver it has FTR/4A53 which could indicate the when it went through FTR by whom and what year. I am also inclinded to believe that the L up arrow 26 may be an inspectors ID, I will have to do more research.

This is really a great forum, I cannot believe how much information I have gathered since I started reading it. I have to say it has also been a influence on my collection, since I have started looking at this forum in the past 6 weeks I have purchased 3 SW revolvers, a 4" model 29-3, a 6" model 24-3 and the Victory model.

Not sure how to insert a picture, may need some direction.

 

[KarlJ]

garra, very interesting. To post a picture, you need a service like Photobucket to upload your pics to. Once they're uploaded, just use the picture button on the toolbar above the text box in the reply window on this thread. You'll need to copy and past the Direct Link text to your picture.

It should end up looking like

This is what you see on the thread.

The up arrows are British (Australia in this case) broadhead proofs. One broadhead shows it is in British service. A point to point shows it was released from service. I think this is the release...