Gun in checked bag...'new' info.

[sbuster]

I was a cop assigned to Denver Int'l Airport for almost 17 years. I was a trainer for several of those years, so I was privy to rules changes, etc. I can tell you there is no uniformity between airlines or airports when it comes to checked-in firearms. None. Some want to see it. Some don't. Some tape the tag on the gun box. Some put it in the gun box. And so on.
TSA does things according to the environment they're given. In other words, if their equipment is stashed behind closed doors not in a public area, your bag goes but you don't. If it's across the way from the ticket counter behind a screen, then you might go with it. Their rules are flexible enough that they can fit what they do almost anywhere. And really, what lock you put on your gun box is up to you. Never heard of any rule except you had to keep the key with you and not put it in the same bag as he gun.

TSA doesn't always go by their own rules. I was given a hard time going to Maine by TSA pricks who stole my fishing plairs. When I was leaving Maine I left those same pliars in my wader jacket. A TSA agent found the plairs told me to stand bacn. When he came back he told me he put the pliars in my checked bag. When I got home, they were in my bag. While most TSA/ agents are jerks, a few are decent people.

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[GerSan69]

I really don't want to beat the proverbial dead horse, so I'll just toss in a web page on the topic from the TSA. They now say, "Don't use a TSA lock to secure your firearm." (Well, OK. I'll give myself a break on my answer since this info was issued two years after I retired. )

They also have a list of 10 TSA approved gun cases. Two of those are "Snapsafe" cases made to go inside another suitcase. However, if you scroll down to "What kind of gun case and lock do I need..." the photo example is one of those blue plastic hinged boxes that some companies put their new guns in. Approved? Well, sorta. It's hard-sided, and you can put locks through those little plastic loops. So yep, you can use one, but they aren't all that secure. As I've said, inconsistencies....

Lastly, there just isn't anything in there that says "hard-sided suitcase." The TSA doesn't require it. If you think they should, tell them. Otherwise, we're arguing semantics and it's not getting us anywhere.

This topic comes up periodically on every gun forum. It's appeared a couple other times that I'm aware of on this forum over the last 4 years or so. It's to be expected, though, because it's confusing, whether it's your first time or you fly all over and the rules are just different enough in different places to be annoying. And no one wants to run afoul of a reg that'll cost you an $11,000 civil forfeiture for a single violation (and that's separate from any court matters.) Heck, even TSA says, "Different airlines and airports may have slightly different rules regarding the safe packing of a firearm and its ammunition, as well as the legality of traveling there with a gun in the first place, so be sure to read the airline’s policy carefully." So even the TSA acknowledges inconsistent application of some rules.

So there you have it. "YMMV " has never been more applicable.
Air Travel with Guns | Packing, Locks, Cases, and TSA Security Checks

 

[.455_Hunter]

So how do you folks who "never fly" travel for work?

 

[jhnttrpp]

flying

So how do you folks who "never fly" travel for work?

While I am retired now, I once traveled every week of every year for almost 30 years. I remember one two week period having 22 take offs and landing. I said all that to say this. I have known many people that never had a take off or landing. Their work did not require travel. Nor did their pleasure. John Madden the famous football coach did not like to fly. He traveled by motorcoach.

 

[Nemo288]

Traveled from Baltimore (BWI) to Austin, Texas (AUS) to watch the mighty University of Maryland Terrapins footballers deliver a proper beat down to the Texas Longhorns.

Mission accomplished!

Are you coming into my fair city to watch the Terps get overwhelmed by the Badgers this Saturday?
PM me with your seat number and I will try to get you on the videoboard.
I am the video engineer.
Keeping things more on topic;
Carrying in downtown Madison is an exercise in futility as very few of the buildings allow guns or weapons.
Our current concealed laws allow carry on campus but also allow them to block carry into any building of theirs.
Commercial outfits have the same option.
I just leave it/them in the vehicle as available as possible while still hidden.
Outside of loony liberal downtown things are more relaxed and I grocery shop armed all the time.

 

[Protected One]

New to me, at least.

Traveled from Baltimore (BWI) to Austin, Texas (AUS) to watch the mighty University of Maryland Terrapins footballers deliver a proper beat down to the Texas Longhorns.

Mission accomplished!

That said, traveled via United Airlines. Check in without incident at BWI. Orange tag signed and placed in suitcase. Bag immediately to the conveyor and off to the TSA baggage check area; agent asked me to wait 10 minutes. No word from TSA meant I was good to go..and off I went. BTW, TSA Pre Check is truly worth the price if you travel with any degree of regularity.

No issues upon arrival and baggage claim in Austin. Very quick delivery, too.

Of late UA does not permit online check in if the first portion of a trip involved a checked gun. That was true this trip. UA personnel at AUS were very efficient. No issue with declaring a checked weapon. Signed the orange tag but was told NOT to place it in the suitcase. Rather, I was directed to carry the suitcase and the tag to the TSA baggage inspection area that was adjacent to the UA counter. Agent there opened the suitcase, swabbed it for explosives, and told me to place the tag in the suitcase...outside the gun case.

Done!

No issues, as is usually the situation.

At the risk of opening the proverbial 'can of worms' anew, I must note the suitcase is a Samsonite hard sided with built in TSA combination locks. The gun case is a Doskocil secured by a TSA combination lock.

Zero issues with using TSA locks which I have always used whilst toting a gun in my checked bag. That encompasses scores of trips and includes airports from coast to coast in at least twenty (20!) states and the District of Columbia.

Hope this is useful info.

Be safe.

Thanks for the post.

I have traveled the states by air, using a metal gun case with a padlock (key stays with me) with no issues what-so-ever.

 

[oneounceload]

To reiterate what was mentioned above and is the rules as stated by TSA:

Know the Rules
Some regulations vary by airline and state but all start with the following basic TSA rules for transporting firearms and ammunition.

Declare any firearm(s) you present for transport as checked baggage.
Firearms must be unloaded and locked in a hard-sided container and transported only as checked baggage. Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock.
Magazines, bolts and firing pins are prohibited in carry-on baggage but may be transported in checked baggage.
Ammunition is prohibited in carry-on baggage but may be transported in checked baggage.
Ammunition being transported may not exceed 11 pounds and must be in its original packaging or stored securely in a container made for that purpose.

You are supposed to be present if they check; you are not supposed to hand over your key or combination; you are supposed to go with the bag for that inspection. Ask for their supervisor and always carry a copy of their rules and the airline you're flying on rules

 

[BC38]

Actually, I am 100% correct. You can argue with me all that you want to but you'd be wrong every time. The fact that the rule has been reinterpreted to mean a locked hard case inside a soft case is presently correct because it is a total reinterpretation/misinterpretation of the rule. I get away with doing it my way because my way is the way that fits into the strict definition of terms - locked, hard sided case. Literally, it implies the gun in its own locked, hard case. Anything else is a misinterpretation but, once it becomes accepted, well, then anything goes. But any hard sided, lockable suitcase, even packed with clothes, fits the definition.

Remember - the firearms cannot be "easily accessed" - using soft sided, zippered luggage that can be opened with a ballpoint pen means your guns can be easily accessed = the new interpretation of the rule cannot be correct. Except for the folks who chain that locked box or something inside their soft luggage. That might work to comply with "not easily accessed".

I don't care if you are an airline cop, TSA watchdog, Homeland Security guru, whatever - the strict definition of a locked, hard sided case is as I stated it. Reinterpreting the rule, even in error, and thereby expanding the rule, is a nice, liberal way to read the statute. I won't say it is not currently the rule as the airlines and even TSA seem to understand it. It just happens to be wrong.

But, let's be polite, I won't be argumentative beyond one final point -

Try doing the locked plastic case inside your soft sided luggage thing WITH A 26 INCH BARRELED HUNTING RIFLE. Those are firearms, too - the rule covers firearms, not concealable handguns. Riddle me that, Batman.......

When it is in a locked plastic "gun case" that is INSIDE a soft-sided case it is still IN a hard-sided locked case. It is no more accessible and is in fact LESS accessible (and harder to identify) than if you simply put the locked plastic gun case on the conveyor. That is what you do with your long guns, right? Or do you have a "regular" Samsonite suitcase long enough to hold a rifle/shotgun case?

The TSA website shows the type of blue plastic case that S&W & other makers ship & sell their handguns in, as an ACCEPTABLE form of locked hard-sided case. So theoretically, you could just padlock your handgun in that kind of case and put it on the luggage conveyor as is. Since the TSA says that is acceptable, how is it somehow un-acceptable when you lock that same case and then put it inside a zippered soft sided case? Especially if you are ALSO locking the soft-sided case (the zippers have loops for a padlock). That assertion doesn't make sense to me.

BTW, when I have traveled with a gun - or multiple guns - that is exactly how I have done it and I use TSA approved locks that open with a combination but that can also be opened with a key. That way the TSA can open them with their key if they feel the need to inspect them. On more than one occasion they have done so - they have left behind an "Official TSA Notice" card saying that the case was opened and gun was inspected by the TSA.

The whole point of the rules are to prevent the gun from being READILY accessible - and therefore quick and easy to steal. Thefts from luggage are crimes of opportunity. Baggage handlers don't have large amounts of time in unsupervised areas with no video surveillance. If you make it inconvenient for them to grab your gun & go, they won't. A hard-sided suitcase isn't going to stop someone any more than a soft-sided case will if they have even a minute or two to try to break into it. The plastic shell of a Samsonite can be cut open with a sharp, heavy-bladed knife. Anything that makes it take more than a few seconds to grab something is sufficient to keep opportunistic baggage handlers from stealing it.

 

[oneounceload]

Read the bold print in my post above - those are directly from the TSA site. Only the owner is to have the key or combination. This is to prevent TSA employees from stealing your gun

 

[BC38]

Read the bold print in my post above - those are directly from the TSA site. Only the owner is to have the key or combination. This is to prevent TSA employees from stealing your gun

I can see that - in theory.

In reality, with the amount of video surveillance at the airport, and the fact that any missing gun is going to prompt an immediate investigation - with TSA being the first potential suspects that are going to be scrutinized - I don't worry much about them stealing my gun.

Though there is no way for us to know unless one of us works for the TSA, I'd be willing to wager that all inspections take place with more than one TSA agent present. I know that to work for the TSA they have to have passed a fairly extensive background check - complete with fingerprinting. I know had to in order to get my airport ramp access badge for my job (maintenance - not TSA).

As others have stated, even if they have to call you to get your key, they are still probably going to be opening your bag without you there in many if not most locations. So in the final analysis, what is the difference? Other than you or your bag maybe missing your flight?

Frankly, I worry a lot more about my bag with my gun in it missing my flight and ending up sitting unattended at the destination airport in the unclaimed bags area. That seems like a much higher risk than a TSA employee stealing my gun.

 

[cp2146]

As I have traveled (flown) only once to date with my gun, I can't speak from tons of experience. I can only say what happened to me the one time I have flown with it...which was nothing. I got on the airline's website (Southwest) to get their rules for flying with a firearm and followed them to the letter (hard sided locked case, etc). When I checked in at the ticket counter at Dallas Love Field and declared my gun, all the guy at the counter had me to do was open my bag and show him that it was packed properly. Then I filled out the red card and placed it in my bag, zipped it up and it was on the belt and I was on my way. Took all of about 5 minutes.

Coming back was slightly different, but no more of an issue than in Dallas. Checking in at Phoenix I declared the gun as instructed. The ticket agent had me take my bag a few steps over to the "man behind the curtain" who opened the bag, looked at the gun case, had me fill out the card, zipped it all up, and sent me on my way. Took all of about 6 minutes (the extra time to walk the few steps to the curtain). Again, no biggie.

 

[msnyder755]

I just finished up a 8 day 3 city trip and flew Delta, the first time since they "changed" thier policies. Here's my story

First leg Austin to Atlanta

Check in at the counter and declare firearm. No issue what so ever the agent has me sign the orange card and I stick it in my bag and lock the outer lock. She puts the baggage stickers including the CAGPT one and throws it on the conveyour belt. I question as to whether it needed to be checked first and she says no if they need your keys they will page you. Ok, no problem.

Get to ATL and fully expect to have to go through all the check in with office routine but and an automated message through the Delta app saying my bag was arriving on claim 7. Go to 7 and here it comes going round. Grab it and leave for hotel without so much a glance from anyone. No TSA inspection notice inside as expected.

Next leg Atlanta to Charlotte

Only one interesting thing here, online check in via app not available. Thats new

Go to the medallion member check in desk and declare firearm once again. "Oh you need to go to special services for that" Go over and declare and very nice lady asked is it loaded. I reply no and her response had me cracking up " thank you for doing it right, some customers think they can unload it when they get here" She checks me in and has me sign the orange card and tells me to take it to oversize bag drop. Ok, not an oversize bag but ok. This is a tiny little portal that is easy to miss off the main corridor. I get to where I think is right and ask a Delta bag guy if I am right. He looks at the bag a says "oh you have a gun, yes they will be with you in a minute" TSA lady comes out takes my bag opens it and does the chem swab closes it up and puts it on the conveyor belt. Never asked to open the gun case or took anything out.

Get to Clt and this was funny. I get a message to please see bag agent on lower floor. Ok go to office and give them my name and she looks it up and says. Oh they are bringing your bag over it will be just a couple minutes. I go to use restroom and on my way back I see my bag on the bag claim going around. I grab and take to the office to let her know I had it. Her eyes big around as my fist. Obviously she was suprised. She immediately called the loaders to find out who unloaded the flight and she needed them in the office immediately. She matched my name and proceeded to zip tie the bag. FYI, the ties they use you can pull apart at the connector with no problem no cutters required.

Last leg Charlotte to Austin

Again no electronic checkin available. Get to the airport and declare once again. Sign the orange card and go to put it in my bag and she says, don't put it in your bag yet TSA will be over in a second. Within a minute the very nice TSA lady comes to get me, take the orange card and telks me to go with her. We go to a smallish back room where crew can pass through and she tells me to open the suitcase. She kind of felt around and slightly seperated some clothes and ask if I had any loose bullets. I replied no then she asked me open the gun case and remove the locks. She opened the case and looked to make sure nothing was hidden under the foam. She looks at and says "Gun check, Clips check, bullets check, you are good to go. Please lock the case. I do so and she placed it back in the suitcase and zips it close and then tells me to lock the suitcase back. After I did she verified it was secure and thanked me for my patience. The whole process less than 5 minutes and honestly she was great and funny.

Get to Austin and automated message says claim 7 to retrieve my bag. After a quick stop in the restroom I go to claim 7 and look over to see my bag sitting in the office. I go in and say that's mine. The bag guys matches my name and proceeds to tear off the bag tags and gives me the bag, no zip ties. Odd I thought but then he goes, 'thats strange" I asked what he meant he said the TSA folded up the inspection notice and stapled it to the CAGPT tag. "I've never seen that before" he replied. I asked why he took the bag tags off he reponded too many people know what it means and you're just getting home and don't need anyone getting all high and mighty. We laughed and I shook his hand and proceeded home.

Long story but some good takeaways:

Easy peasy with very very minor time involved

Different agents are going to do things different ways

Expect the unexpected but don't expect anything just be nice and prepare to learn as you go

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

[GaryS]

Must be a Delta thing. Flew BOS to DAL on SWA. Checked the bag, filled out the card. Counter agent taped it to.the gun box and away we went. Got to.DAL, bag on the carousel.

Yesterday got to DAL for my flight to CLT. Filled out the card, the counter agent put it in the bag on top of the case. I closed the bag and off it went. Got to CLT, and the bag was on the carousel.

Monday I fly back to Boston on American. I expect it will be more of the same. I don't fly them often, but the last time it was the same as SWA.

Delta seems to be making more of it than there needs to be.

I just finished up a 8 day 3 city trip and flew Delta, the first time since they "changed" thier policies. Here's my story

First leg Austin to Atlanta

Check in at the counter and declare firearm. No issue what so ever the agent has me sign the orange card and I stick it in my bag and lock the outer lock. She puts the baggage stickers including the CAGPT one and throws it on the conveyour belt. I question as to whether it needed to be checked first and she says no if they need your keys they will page you. Ok, no problem.

Get to ATL and fully expect to have to go through all the check in with office routine but and an automated message through the Delta app saying my bag was arriving on claim 7. Go to 7 and here it comes going round. Grab it and leave for hotel without so much a glance from anyone. No TSA inspection notice inside as expected.

Next leg Atlanta to Charlotte

Only one interesting thing here, online check in via app not available. Thats new

Go to the medallion member check in desk and declare firearm once again. "Oh you need to go to special services for that" Go over and declare and very nice lady asked is it loaded. I reply no and her response had me cracking up " thank you for doing it right, some customers think they can unload it when they get here" She checks me in and has me sign the orange card and tells me to take it to oversize bag drop. Ok, not an oversize bag but ok. This is a tiny little portal that is easy to miss off the main corridor. I get to where I think is right and ask a Delta bag guy if I am right. He looks at the bag a says "oh you have a gun, yes they will be with you in a minute" TSA lady comes out takes my bag opens it and does the chem swab closes it up and puts it on the conveyor belt. Never asked to open the gun case or took anything out.

Get to Clt and this was funny. I get a message to please see bag agent on lower floor. Ok go to office and give them my name and she looks it up and says. Oh they are bringing your bag over it will be just a couple minutes. I go to use restroom and on my way back I see my bag on the bag claim going around. I grab and take to the office to let her know I had it. Her eyes big around as my fist. Obviously she was suprised. She immediately called the loaders to find out who unloaded the flight and she needed them in the office immediately. She matched my name and proceeded to zip tie the bag. FYI, the ties they use you can pull apart at the connector with no problem no cutters required.

Last leg Charlotte to Austin

Again no electronic checkin available. Get to the airport and declare once again. Sign the orange card and go to put it in my bag and she says, don't put it in your bag yet TSA will be over in a second. Within a minute the very nice TSA lady comes to get me, take the orange card and telks me to go with her. We go to a smallish back room where crew can pass through and she tells me to open the suitcase. She kind of felt around and slightly seperated some clothes and ask if I had any loose bullets. I replied no then she asked me open the gun case and remove the locks. She opened the case and looked to make sure nothing was hidden under the foam. She looks at and says "Gun check, Clips check, bullets check, you are good to go. Please lock the case. I do so and she placed it back in the suitcase and zips it close and then tells me to lock the suitcase back. After I did she verified it was secure and thanked me for my patience. The whole process less than 5 minutes and honestly she was great and funny.

Get to Austin and automated message says claim 7 to retrieve my bag. After a quick stop in the restroom I go to claim 7 and look over to see my bag sitting in the office. I go in and say that's mine. The bag guys matches my name and proceeds to tear off the bag tags and gives me the bag, no zip ties. Odd I thought but then he goes, 'thats strange" I asked what he meant he said the TSA folded up the inspection notice and stapled it to the CAGPT tag. "I've never seen that before" he replied. I asked why he took the bag tags off he reponded too many people know what it means and you're just getting home and don't need anyone getting all high and mighty. We laughed and I shook his hand and proceeded home.

Long story but some good takeaways:

Easy peasy with very very minor time involved

Different agents are going to do things different ways

Expect the unexpected but don't expect anything just be nice and prepare to learn as you go

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

[GaryS]

What the rules say is one thing. What actually happens is another. At some airports, I have been brought back into the "secure" area, where non TSA employees are not supposed to go, to open the gun case. In others, I was able to stand in the doorway and watch while a TSA employee used the key to open the gun case. In yet others, they demanded the key and then brought it back to me. In others, the screening takes place out in the public area.

Some of that depends on terminal building configuration, as most of them were built well before the TSA was created.

Oh, and anyone who thinks that every square inch of the TSA work areas are covered with video cameras is fooling themselves.

I suppose that I could make a stink about it. Then, I'd be able to watch as my flight left with me standing inside the terminal.

Read the bold print in my post above - those are directly from the TSA site. Only the owner is to have the key or combination. This is to prevent TSA employees from stealing your gun

 

[msnyder755]

Yep, after the shooting in Florida by the Delta passenger they implemented their own security measures beyond what the TSA requires. No problem really they cwn do as they wish but it seems like each station just does what they want anyway. It was painless for me and I will continue to bring along when I travel.

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[sbuster]

Yep, after the shooting in Florida by the Delta passenger they implemented their own security measures beyond what the TSA requires. No problem really they cwn do as they wish but it seems like each station just does what they want anyway. It was painless for me and I will continue to bring along when I travel.

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I went through my home airport with no problems. I landed in another up north ane us passengers were shuttled down a hallway without doirs or windows.I asked a rough looking dude who wanted to search my carry on. I told him I had been searched by airport and he said " Well your in my airport now so open your bag" Talk about a real TSA jerk. I really wanted to smack him

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[GaryS]

Added a new experience to the list today. Flying out of Charlotte back to Boston on AA. I went to the counter and declared my firearm. The lady had me sign the card, but she filled the rest out. Then she put a red tag on that said "Return to BSO". She didn't tell me what that mean, but I had an idea. After doing everything, she told me that she didn't need to see the firearm, but that she had called TSA to come and do an inspection. A nice TSA guy came over and brought me to a screening room behind the ticket counter.

There, he opened my bag, inspected the firearm, inspected the ammunition, and declared all was well. He taped the "orange card", which was white to the outside of the gun box, then stapled the inspected by TSA form to the luggage tag.

HE was the person who told me that I'd have to collect the bag from the Baggage Service Office in Boston. Hence the red tag. Which might as well say "THERE'S SOMETHING WORTH STEALING INSIDE".

Just adding to my dislike of American and Charlotte Douglas.

My flight from Boston to Dallas Love and then from Dallas Love to Charlotte on SWA was very easy and pleasant. Fill out the card, tape it to the box, close the suitcase, pick up the suitcase off of the carousel. TSA didn't even care about the duck breasts I had in a small cooler on the DAL to CLT flight.

I can't wait to see what stupidity AA has for me in Boston.

 

[oneounceload]

Except you won't know it is gone until you get to your destination. Good luck proving they stole it versus the baggage guys, versus those on the receiving end. They were stealing laptops and other items going through the Xray machines at the checkpoint. Getting them take it away to a small room without you? The answer is simply, NO.

 

[Moe Mentum]

Just follow the airline rules, and you will be fine. Just a reminder, don't carry your firearm into any state that does not allow CCW. If you do, you will be in a world of hurt . Don't even bring it, it's not worth it. States like NY, and NJ come to mind, but there are others.