Gun Show Pricing - Too High?

"Gun show people are not like gun stores and cant use the "overhead" excuse."

At one time , that may have been true. Not today. Gun shows have become big business , for the promoter/organizer at least. Now it can cost $100 per table per day. Many now make ya rent a table just for paperwork. Many charge a fee if ya want an outlet for electrical power.

And for the bigger dealers , gunshows are a lot of work.

Gun shows have come so far from the first ones I startred going to 30+ years ago. Used to be mostly hobbiests , selling the odds & ends they acquired thru the years. It was great for finding that one little 'part' ya needed.

Back then , ya could get an FFL without having a real retail storefront , so ya had a lot of Ma & Pa dealers , and ya could actually find good , sometimes great deals.

Now it's nothing but high priced , high pressure hucksters. If yer looking to sell , they offer a pittance. And probably half the tables are not even remotely gun related. Arts & crafts , jewelry , cheap knives and martial arts junk. More like a flea market.
 
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I read these posts and conclude most of the above posters don't go to shows, have no clue as to what guns actually are selling for, and live in a fantasy world where the LGS has stock on hand. Reality is much different that that postulated by the above folks.

We went to a fairly large gun show in Louisville, Kentucky today. There were dozens of tables with more old S&Ws than any gun shop I've been in since the turn of the century. Some of the items were so scarce I was shocked they were up for sale. The only guns that appear in gun shops with an regularity are current production items. I have little interest in those, but you do see them. There were literally hundreds of tables selling ammo. Most at prices you can't dream about in an LGS. Reloading components from current production to some bullets in boxes that I'm sure predate me. Last time I priced .30 cal bullets in an LGS, they were asking $35 or more a box. At today's show, I was seeing them for $20 a box of 100. Brand name like Speer and Sierra.

I don't live in a region rich in gun shops. Sure, if I want to drive 50 miles I can take in one or two. But at the gun show I can see many offerings of dozens and dozens of local stores (many of them travel hundreds of miles). We also have the ripest of them all, the private vendors. Those are guys like me or you who want to raise some cash for a new gun or whatever. Stuff being sold at 1970s prices.

The gun shops I visit, and its becoming less frequent, have shocking prices (to me).

I do understand the feelings of people who don't visit shows wanting to bad mouth them. But the comments those posters make are just untrue. When was the last time you saw vintage K22s in a glass case at a shop? Today I could have purchased (if I had the funds) a few dozen of them, dating from the late 1940s up to the 1980s. You can visit local stores for the next year and not see more than one or two.

I have my facts straight. I'd suggest the nay-sayers actually visit a few shows before they come up with the bunk I'm reading.

The last time I saw a vintage K-22 in a glass case at a shop was exactly 3 weeks ago, the last time I stopped in at the shop in Mt. Airy, MD where I bought my 4-screw pre-17 last July. This time it was a 17-1.

I go to quite a few gun shows, even though I know it will probably be a waste of my time. Most of the shows around here are put on by the same 2 or 3 promoters, and most of the vendors are LGSs who just load up their stock and go to the show for the weekend. They don't drive for hundreds of miles - almost all are from within a 50 mile radius. The prices are the same at the show as back in their glass cases any other time. The only advantage is being able to see stuff from a lot of dealers all at once. The prices are the prices, regardless. Some of the vendors you have to wonder how they ever sell anything. Like the guy selling SA Range Officers for $900 when a guy a few aisles over has them for $769. LE trade-in M-10s for $375. Off-brand Chinese optics and beef jerky, airsoft guns, no-name holsters, cheap knives.

I go to the Chantilly show in VA precisely because I do see a lot of old Smiths there, a whole lot of collectors' items I don't see elsewhere. But only a fool goes expecting bargains.

We've talked about this on this forum any number of times. The situation varies according to where in this vast country you live. The East Coast isn't rural Kentucky. Just because someone says what he sees around him and it doesn't square with "the facts" as they may be in your world, don't assume he's a liar or an ignoramus. It's nice that you enjoy the shows you go to. Just don't assume that because it's one way in Kentucky it's that way everywhere.
 
Not today. Gun shows have become big business , for the promoter/organizer at least. Now it can cost $100 per table per day.

Tables are only 8' long. Gasoline is $3.50 a gallon. Motel rooms exceed $100 a night. Lunch inside the venue us often awful and costs as much as a decent meal. Supper out with buddies isn't cheap because the guys are hungry and out on the town. How is that no overhead? If you look at the per day cost its probably higher than your LGS per day. The big advantage is we do it for fun. And often we don't see any profit, just getting our poorly spent money back so we can "invest" it in another dreamed of gun.

I'm guessing anyone who goes to a gun show expecting a fat profit will come away disappointed. Its also fun to hear the vendors lament the prices they see out on the internet, and how they can't ever get anywhere near what they saw a item sell for last week.

Now for a tidbit of ultimate truth. Unless you're looking for a brand new production firearm, you won't find it at a LGS. If you want a recent production, but no longer made or sold through commercial channels, gun shops won't have it. If you're looking for a gun that is older than you, and want to be picky about condition, you'll almost never find it in a store. I don't often go to a gun show with one specific item in mind. Yesterday was an exception, and I'd seen it the prior weekend at a show.

We're seeing threads here about ammo shortages, or how WallyWorld is out of some calibers. Its not at all unusual to see vendors at a gun show hauling in pallets full of "hard to get" ammo at a time. I often wonder how it is that gun show vendors can acquire a pallet full of AR ammo but the local LGS can't seem to get any at all. But I know the answer. The show vendor will pay the price and buy the pallet loads at a time. The LGS wants to order 3 boxes of this, one case of that, etc. And then he'll want it UPS'd.

So the wholesaler tells everyone the same thing. Yes, he's got some in the warehouse. If you send a truck, his fork lift will put it on the tailgate. Cheaper by the pallet than by the case, much cheaper than breaking cases down and repacking it. The gun show vendor shows up at 0800 backed into the loading dock. He ordered it yesterday, got his total, and has a bank check in his hand. The LGS won't pay the wholesalers outrageous prices to do the custom picking, repackaging and then the UPS hazmat fees. Worse, the custom picked order takes a bunch of time, and they're backed up 2 weeks on those. The LGS total order might be $1000, but its credit and the LGS pays late all the time. His forklift driver can put 6 pallets on the dock in 10 minutes, the deal is pay in advance, and its sales of $50,000 now.

Walmart operates differently. They want to buy the manufacturers total production for the next week. They beat the producer over the head on price. It keeps volume up but there is very little profit, none if they only sell to one customer.

I personally like watching the ammo guys sell out. A whole pallet full of AR ammo gone in the first 6 hours of the gun show. Carted out one case at a time by gun nuts (not a bad term). Some of the ammo sellers are trying to figure out how to haul in a 2nd pallet later in the afternoon. The people I feel sorry for are the guys with off caliber ammo needs. Nobody wants to produce or stock slow moving items. The only market is the small seller who doesn't much care. He bought some minimum quantity last year and is still trying to sell it down. He's got to charge a fair profit just to eat.
 
There are very few gun shows here.I went to one and was very plesantly suprised to see one that was honest.He had a in box 1960 Cobra with its box for 350 dollars.It was very refreshing
 
The last gun show I went to (and the last one I will go to for the forceable future) had about three (3) "vintage" S&W revolvers and by vintage I simply mean pre-lock. Two of those were Brazilian 1917s for well over the $500 I would be willing to pay for one. Guess, as others have said the quality of things offered at gun shows is very regional. rburg obviously hasn't been to a gun show like the last few I've attended.

It just isn't worth $10-$20 to look at over priced stuff I'm not interested in. It's been so long since I actually found something to buy at a gun show I can't even remember how far back that was. (LOL)

Dave
 
I still enjoy gun shows, because you never know what you will find. I have bought quite a number of old (1860-1960) S&W's at shows. I actually like the smaller (100-300 table) shows where the dealers appreciate you coming and digging through their holster and grip boxes in search of a jewel or two. You can also pick up that pound or two of powder that the LGS doesn't have in stock and hasn't had for nearly a year. Maybe a box of obsolete bullets for your 219 Donaldson Wasp, or a lens cap for your Unertle. If you want a bunch of new stuff, just go to your LGS and buy it.
 
The big shows here are mostly done by one promoter.I haven't been to any of his flea markets in a few years.There is one large show put on by a collectors group in the spring that is very good.Years ago there were a number of smaller shows that actually had collectable guns.The last one I went to ,5 years ago,I thought a little too long about a nib,4" ,late 60s nickel python for $900.
 
Gotta' love the gun shows. If not for them, my S&W collection would be maybe one third of what it is today. :)

Same here.....but let's keep that a secret. Less crowded gun shows are good for us

Out of all of the gun show finds my favorite is the 3" 66-4 that a private seller brought with him. Excellent condition with Spegel boot grips, $450.
Several dealers he had showed it to wanted to lowball him to make more profit. I guess the chance of nearly doubling their money was not good enough for them.
 
Tables are only 8' long. Gasoline is $3.50 a gallon. Motel rooms exceed $100 a night. Lunch inside the venue us often awful and costs as much as a decent meal. Supper out with buddies isn't cheap because the guys are hungry and out on the town. How is that no overhead? If you look at the per day cost its probably higher than your LGS per day. The big advantage is we do it for fun. And often we don't see any profit, just getting our poorly spent money back so we can "invest" it in another dreamed of gun.

I'm guessing anyone who goes to a gun show expecting a fat profit will come away disappointed. Its also fun to hear the vendors lament the prices they see out on the internet, and how they can't ever get anywhere near what they saw a item sell for last week.

I like going to gun shows!:D Unlike most of the posters in this thread!:D:) I have to admit a lot of prices are pretty high, but I like walking around, talking with all the gun people I know, seeing if I can find something I like and just the general excitement of all of it.:) I go back to work and laugh/wail about the prices, especially the junk condition guns!

The few times I have rented a table at a show the guns I sell I bought at market price, it's not like I get things at waaay below market just because I am selling them!:) I put a high price on the ones I really don't want to sell and when someone looks at it I laugh and tell them I really don't want to sell it. And then I have a good cry for a couple of weeks when they sell! It is still a lot of fun.
Ed
 
Last gunshow I went to was , yesterday!

Hard to tell who was more pushy and ignorant , the vendors or the patrons.
 
Yup, prices are high here, too. Went to the show at North Atlanta Trade Center on Saturday and saw S&W revolvers going for well over $100 over what is a fair price. Not too many were changing hands at those prices either. Lotsa black rifles and plastic pistols walking away, though. Must be the Christmas spirit or the past election..........
 
Was at a GS Sat. and spotted an older (but really nice condition) blue Smith in 357. I don't remember what model but it had a adjustable front site on a 6" barrel. I don't recall any Smiths that had that type front site so I passed on the sellers asking price of $550. Just shows that you may just find the unusual stuff at GS.
I love going to the GS, they are big garage/yard sales and have darn near anything you want.
 
Ah, the gun shows great comedy at a decent price. Just remember going in that everything is going to be over priced, but if you see something you like and want, what the hey. I personally enjoy them for all of the stories that the dealers spin about how valuable and famous some of their items are, and who could leave out all of the wannabe "survivalists" and "black ops operators" walking around in their BDU's. As I said...good comedy.
 
Gun shows in Maryland have become a great place to buy beef jerky and $5 knives. It's really sad. I still go to them on the chance that something really good might present itself. Pricing at most shows is really a joke. Many sellers bank on buyers with more money than brains, hoping the buyers won't pass up a "show special." I go to shows in PA or VA when I can. They're much better. Doing one's homework helps avoid costly mistakes. Good luck and happy holidays to all.
 
RdrBill's comment in post 35..on cash is king reminds of a gun show I went to about 2 months ago. I found a guy with a very small collection.. 3 smiths. 1 was a 39-2 shooter grade for $225. The other was a model 10 snubby for $550 and a Model 15-2 snubby for $600. We talked for awhile about guns in general. I really wanted either of the snubbies but not at those prices. I made several offers and he wouldn't budge. Finally, I asked to see the shooter grade 39-2. It was in good shape except someone had gouged the finish on the frame on one side. It looked like it was used as a hammer. I offered him $200 as I wanted a shooter grade 39 just to play around with. He was good with that price.
Now here is where Bill's point about cash gets interesting. When I pulled out a pocket full of Benjamins to pay for the 39 he suddenly got really interested in lowering the prices on his model 15 and model 10.:eek::eek:
Now I was no longer engaged and walked away. MY dilemma in retrospect was if I have cash in hand will the vendor assume I can afford what he's asking and stick tight on his price. In this case the guy had obviously been pestered alot over the last 2 days and was cynical about me beings serious about any purchase. When I produced real cash he was alot more willing to get serious...go figure.
 
You have to know more, or at least as much, as the seller(s) do about accurately gauging condition and what the market says that condition is worth. You have to be willing and able to aggressively (yet respectfully) haggle, but also know when to walk away. You have to be able to compare the price/quality of guns various dealers have while 'on the run', so to speak, so the next guy doesn't get that "great deal" you could have gotten. You should have enough cash so you can roll out $100 bills on demand to close a deal in your favor. It helps to go to shows enough so that you know many dealers personally, like first name personally, and they know you. And, it helps if you are more interested in used guns than in new (as I am). I've generally gotten much better deals at gun shows over that past 30 years than at any LGS or big box store. I've gotten some absolute steals, including recently. And yes, I've also paid going rate many times on guns I wanted and could find nowhere else (except on-line). While I do also buy guns on-line, I prefer to see and touch them before purchasing, so gun shows have always been my top buying venue for used guns.
 
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Was at a GS Sat. and spotted an older (but really nice condition) blue Smith in 357. I don't remember what model but it had a adjustable front site on a 6" barrel. I don't recall any Smiths that had that type front site so I passed on the sellers asking price of $550. Just shows that you may just find the unusual stuff at GS.
I love going to the GS, they are big garage/yard sales and have darn near anything you want.

You live in Ohio, which judging from the members here, is the land of milk-honey AND Smith's. :D:cool:
 
Got a chance to see and hold a Shield today at the Fort Myers Gun Show. Retail $449, they had several but I decided to wait a bit. Shoot Straight was over half of Lee Civic Center. Nice selections of all kinds, no real special prices. Others had used, very used. There may have been some bargains there but I didn't spot em!
 
In end, it comes down to what's is worth to you. I used to go to gun shows all the time, driving up to 4 hours one way. But constraints of time, diminished income, and gas prices have cut down on it, but not completely. But it still makes a things a lot easier by having all those vendors in one place rather than driving all over the state.
With the mutiplicity of vendors in the same place, it increases the chances of finding that one-of-a kind that you'd never think of seeing. I remember years ago I went to the Monroeville, PA gun show and looked down at a table and there was a Colt Series 70 Government Model in 9mm that seemed to be in a spotlight. When I examined it closely, I could see that a lot of custom work had been done on it and it locked up like a bank vault. When I looked at the price, I figured that for what was being asked, I couldn't get the work done on another gun. My club was just starting up IPSC matches, so everything just came together for buying a gun I never would have found going to shops on my own. Happily I still have the gun and didn't have to sell it when I was out of work.
 
Shoot Straight was over half of Lee Civic Center

I refuse to go to the suncoast gun shows because of this. Sorry, dont like what they have done to the Florida gun shows. Not a fan of the place or their people who ride around on segways.
 
One offer is better than a thousand lookers and cash is king. Don't take it so seriously and have fun with the hunt. EZ for me to say because I live in the heart of good gun show country. :)
 
I haven't hit any gun shows this year but regularly attended 3 to 5 a year until this year. I've also had very good luck at some of the gun shows when I took the time to talk to the dealers and got to know them after several gun shows and a I did few purchases from them. The prices are usually a starting point and they can be usually be bargined with to a point. They are a business like any other and have the cost of the item, carrying cost, and the cost of being at the show so they certainly have a bottom line on the gun they are selling.

Some are there to sell guns and also see their fellow dealers and friends at the show. A lot of them are there swapping guns with other dealers just to see who can one up the other one and still sell a few guns to cover their cost. I have a few dealers that I've dealt with that will call me before the show if they have something they think I'm might be intersted in and they will hold it off the table until I arrive and let me have the first look and option to buy. That happens because of previous sales and me showing up on time and having a real interest in the gun they are selling and me not just there pulling their chain.

I've been going to gun shows since the mid 80's and some evolved into junk shows with more cheap knives, jerky, and jewelry then you would ever care to see and I soon crossed them off of my list but several stayed mostly gun shows.

The deals are few and far between but they are out there and if you enjoy the shows and can live with cost of travel, time envolved with the travel, crappy food at the show then you can find a few nuggets but you have to be willing to spend the time, money and energy.
 
This happened to me at a small Indiana show a couple months ago. I had a nice 28-2 6" that I thought was worth $600 but it hadn't sold on Sunday. Another vendor had a 27-2 5" that was in better condition than my 28. He asked 700 and it was unsold on Sunday. He needed money so he offered me the gun for $600. I'd just turned down a $500 offer on my 28 but I told Doug I'd try and make it happen. I tracked down the guy that offered me $500 and he took the 28. I added a $100 and got the 27. I made out, the guy that got my gun made out and the 27 seller took a little hit but when you need money sometimes that's what you've got to do.
 
. When I produced real cash he was alot more willing to get serious...go figure.

That is one of the facets of human nature that is hard to fathom in a brief conversation with a stranger. Those behind the table deal with so many posers, blowhards, and guys who are "gonna buy two of those when my dad gets out of the poor house" that any low ball offers are ignored since (to be fair to the seller) I've seen folks do that and then use the new offer as a starting point to try get it down more, and likely wouldn't buy it then.

"Flashing the cash" is a tactic that works with certain types that seem to need physical evidence that you're not just huffing and puffing. More often than not when I've made it a point to pull out cash money and display it while making a lower offer I've wound up putting it back in my wallet . . . but . . . there have been times when the seller thought it over for a second and then handed over the goods.

Ladder13 said it - no hard and fast rules. People have their quirks and differences and what works on one may not with another. The problem with gun shows is the wide range of apathy, ignorance, and the feeling of entitlement among the general population. Percentage -wise I'm guessing the number of "serious buyers" at a given show (aside from inter-table swapping/selling prior to and during the show) is quite small compared to the walk-throughs. After a while you must just get tired of trying to be pleasant to people who are just there to gawk and waste your time.
 
It may have been mentioned in here among these 57-or-so posts, but the dealer at the show has to rent the tables at an average cost of $75-$80 per table. He also has to move the inventory in and out as well as travel to and from wherever he/she may reside. Oh yes....I have been ticked-off at many dealers myself and some will gouge the "unknowing" if possible. But, some of you need to go sit on the other side of the tables now and then and deal with some of the nuts that come thru the door. Many guys I know will deal with a customer on a gun. Those that have a take-it-or-leave-it price on the gun, either don't need the money, or just hope to hook a sucker now and then to pay for his tables.

It's not all one sided and like already mentioned...if the buyer doesn't want to pay the asking price and the dealer won't move....walk on and browse elsewhere. I ALWAYS put a price-tag on my guns that has a numerical figure and a "or make an offer" on the tag as well.
 

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