Guns lose value

rsrocket1 said:
Then you are not a very astute buyer. I bought my Shield when it retailed for $419 and got a sale price adjustment of $385 for it. I've had it for several years now and have thoroughly enjoyed it. Was it overpriced when I bought it? No, otherwise I would not have bought it. If I thought it was overpriced and bought it anyway, I'd foolish. The fact that it can be bought some places for $239 now has nothing to do with paying $385 for it when I did. I certainly got more than $150 worth of enjoyment out of it.

If you only think that you are a wise shopper only when you get something at the rock bottom price, good luck. You'll be sitting on your money scouring the ads rather than shooting.
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This^^^

Only I would add life is short, I'll be enjoying the gun range with my purchases, while the next guy is worried about paying too much. I can make more money, it's time I cannot replace.
 
Years ago, I dabbled in old Corvettes. Bought at least a dozen over a period of several years. Sold every one of them at a profit. Sometimes a very good profit. Also bought a brand new 98 convertible when they first appeared. $50K give or take a bit. 4-5 years later when she decided she wanted something else, the Vette brought about $20K in trade value. Same thing with guns. If you expect your guns to hold their value, buy older, collectable guns. Don't shoot them, as it may detract from the value.
 
Yeahya said:
I also love the comments, I can get glocks for 300. Anomalies should stereotype the value from the poor soul who fell on hard times and stumbled into such a wise bargain hunter!
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Not anomalies. A typical used glock goes for around $350 depending on accessories and such. The only new Glock I ever bought was the 43. All others were used and between $300 - $350

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TTSH said:
Yeah, this thread has really gone off the rails with this mistaken notion that someone has actually advocated buying plastic guns as investment pieces bought to yield a profit. No people! :o Chill out! ;) It's exactly the opposite! :D

Another thing: The term "investment" can mean different things... and in the context of typical (non-dealer) firearms accumulating/collecting, it generally means a simple, reliable, physical store of wealth... not speculating or trying to produce an income or profit. In fact, many would argue that would be illegal in a strict reading of Federal law. :(

Most of us are happier if our guns don't lose value just sitting in the safe. Yes, with use and wear (especially excessive wear & tear), any gun can lose value. Some will also rise in value over time. But what we are seeing here is plastic guns nosediving in value not even accounting for use or wear & tear... and that is a little disturbing to some of us. :o But it really shouldn't have been entirely unexpected given how cheap they are to make.

I was one of the damn fools who bought a Shield .45 just a few days before the first hints of the rebate hit the Interwebs. Do I feel I got the Big Zingaroo from S&W and somewhat from my dealer too? :confused: Yes, I do. Turns out I threw away a C-note (or more as it turns out) for nothing and I can't afford to do that sort of thing too often on my pitiful retirement income. :( So lesson learned the hard way for me: No more plastic ever again unless it's something I really, really need. :mad:
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I'm not sure a rebate for 3 months on 3 models constitutes a nose dive in prices. What happens on July 1st when the rebate is over? Is it all of a sudden a price hike? It's simply a sale, almost everyone has one every now and then.

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Cheap in Cheap out ...

You get what you pay for. Buy a cheap plastic gun and you have not invested in value, you have invested in utility.

If you use it to defend you life and home you made a great investment. If it stays in your sock drawer you have still invested in peace of mind.

If you try to sell it or trade it in for a quality firearm you will not have made a good investment.

Simple economics.

digiroc
 
The only thing I have ever purchased wherein I am watchful and concerned about the potential resale value is my home. I'm not counting my investment in my government pension fund, as the only active management I did of that fund was to slowly shift more money into safer funds as I approached retirement. I can understand how purchase of stock is always with the resale value in mind. Other than that, I buy stuff to use and enjoy. As someone who watched a $25 bar t shirt with the tag still on it go for $2 at a garage sale, I can imagine that most others are of the same mindset.

I have some pistols that have appreciated nicely in value over the years. I carry the most profitable one (a four figure gain) nearly every day. Others have held steady or decreased, but that doesn't bother me. I bought them because I liked them.
 
Sumpin is up with the Shields, in particular. Market forces are pushing prices down, in general, but it's more than that: S&W is pushing out excess stock, probably in anticipation of a Shield 2.0.

And if you like your Shield -- and I am enjoying my new one, and thinking about how I can use it, to the point of maybe leaving my 642 on the shelf except for the quickest trips to the ATM -- you might buy another S&W pistol!

3d Gen prices are more interesting -- they bounce around. After a lot of 5906's hit the used police market over the past couple of years, bringing prices down into the low $300's, I think they are starting to go up in price - despite the general market conditions. Condition is everything, though.
 
S&W Rover said:
Sumpin is up with the Shields, in particular. Market forces are pushing prices down, in general, but it's more than that: S&W is pushing out excess stock, probably in anticipation of a Shield 2.0.

And if you like your Shield -- and I am enjoying my new one, and thinking about how I can use it, to the point of maybe leaving my 642 on the shelf except for the quickest trips to the ATM -- you might buy another S&W pistol!

3d Gen prices are more interesting -- they bounce around. After a lot of 5906's hit the used police market over the past couple of years, bringing prices down into the low $300's, I think they are starting to go up in price - despite the general market conditions. Condition is everything, though.
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Then why wouldn't they do that with the M&Ps when 2.0 came out? Or wait and have a sale on all right before all new 2.0 come out? And is there going to be a 2.0 SDVE? Cause they're on sale too!

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Arik said:
Then why wouldn't they do that with the M&Ps when 2.0 came out? Or wait and have a sale on all right before all new 2.0 come out? And is there going to be a 2.0 SDVE? Cause they're on sale too!
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Shhhh! Quit being logical. :eek:
 
Arik said:
I'm not sure a rebate for 3 months on 3 models constitutes a nose dive in prices. What happens on July 1st when the rebate is over? Is it all of a sudden a price hike? It's simply a sale, almost everyone has one every now and then.
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A simple sale? :confused: No, I think it's a bit more than just that. :cool: It's an admission of the fact that plastic guns like the Shield can be manufactured for next to nothing... and the company can still make a nice profit at historically very low prices. :D

Look for a change in list price shortly after the rebate ends... or a new model being released after the rebate so they can justify holding the list price up at the current level. :)
 
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TTSH said:
A simple sale? :confused: No, I think it's a bit more than just that. :cool: It's an admission of the fact that plastic guns like the Shield can be manufactured for next to nothing... and the company can still make a nice profit at historically very low prices. :D

Look for a change in list price shortly after the rebate ends... or a new model being released after the rebate so they can justify holding the list price up at the current level. :)
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It's not an admission of anything. It's simply a sale. You sell more at less profit, but you sell and it actually makes more money. I just saw a sale on Sigs. Does that mean that metal guns aren't all that fnacy and quiet cheap to make?

Sales are low, firearms aren't moving, inventory sits. Rather make a little bit of profit than none at all.

Ammo is going down in price too. Because otherwise it sits at distributors. No one is panicking. No one is buy just to buy

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Arik said:
It's not an admission of anything. It's simply a sale. You sell more at less profit, but you sell and it actually makes more money. I just saw a sale on Sigs. Does that mean that metal guns aren't all that fancy and quiet cheap to make?
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Please don't tell me I just missed a Sig sale. :eek: You just spoiled my whole night. :o
 
Yeahya said:
......I also love the comments, I can get glocks for 300. Anomalies should stereotype the value from the poor soul who fell on hard times and stumbled into such a wise bargain hunter......
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Nah, I never stumble into street corner bargains or anything like that. I make 99% of my purchases on the open market and probably at least 95% of those on GB,......and the vast majority of those GB purchases are Buy Now or Fixed Price sales. I don't often snag a bargain on auction. $300 Glocks are listed there all the time,.....I pass them by at least monthly.

I consider myself something of an expert used gun buyer. I have purchased literally thousands of guns over the years(was an FFL for 15yrs), but have probably not purchased more than a dozen guns NIB,.......until recently. Grabbed four Shields because they're priced right. After June I suspect I'll go back to my regular 100:1 used/new ratio.

I still don't get the logic of railing against a discounted bargain while trumpeting a manufacturer that maintains an inflated MSRP, but then I've owned Glocks for at least 25yrs and am completely unimpressed with their 'perfection'.

And yes, .mil and LE sales can be in the low $200 range,....but they're volume sales that bypass normal dealer/distributor channels and are not subject to FET(which I want to say is 11% because I'm too lazy to look it up). So if you take that into account I'll say that Glock could make a good profit with an MSRP of around $300(like S&W does with the SD series, which is nothing but a low fanfare M&P without the marketing budget).
 
For anyone who doesn't believe in $300 Glocks, I can confirm they do exist on the used market at least. There is a local shop here in town that has half a dozen Gen 2 model 21 Glock police trade ins for $299 each. Only catch is they are missing the magazine. Of course a lot of gun stores have a stack of Glock mags in their bins for about 20 bucks each.
 
kaveman said:
I've owned Glocks for at least 25yrs and am completely unimpressed with their 'perfection'.
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"Perfection" has ZERO to do with looks or grip angles or accuracy, finish, price. It's "perfection" in simplicity! It's the gun with the least amount of parts. It has 34 parts. Today other guns are close. M&P has 39. But back in the 80s it was a major breakthrough.

What exactly is supposed to be impressive? I know I'm always impressed when a product functions as advertised.

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kaveman said:
Nah, I never stumble into street corner bargains or anything like that. I make 99% of my purchases on the open market and probably at least 95% of those on GB,......and the vast majority of those GB purchases are Buy Now or Fixed Price sales. I don't often snag a bargain on auction. $300 Glocks are listed there all the time,.....I pass them by at least monthly.

I consider myself something of an expert used gun buyer. I have purchased literally thousands of guns over the years(was an FFL for 15yrs), but have probably not purchased more than a dozen guns NIB,.......until recently. Grabbed four Shields because they're priced right. After June I suspect I'll go back to my regular 100:1 used/new ratio.

I still don't get the logic of railing against a discounted bargain while trumpeting a manufacturer that maintains an inflated MSRP, but then I've owned Glocks for at least 25yrs and am completely unimpressed with their 'perfection'.

And yes, .mil and LE sales can be in the low $200 range,....but they're volume sales that bypass normal dealer/distributor channels and are not subject to FET(which I want to say is 11% because I'm too lazy to look it up). So if you take that into account I'll say that Glock could make a good profit with an MSRP of around $300(like S&W does with the SD series, which is nothing but a low fanfare M&P without the marketing budget).
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The SD series are a real bargain. I won one in a grand opening raffle and was impressed with the quality, but they are not an M&P. They have a totally different trigger that is TERRIBLE! After installing an Apex trigger I love it. Identical in size to a Glock 19, but lighter.
 
I don't care if I paid $500 for my shield and it's worth only $50 now. If someday it saves a life, that's what is important to me. I bought mine for enjoyment and self defense and couldn't care less what it's worth or how little it cost to manufacture. As long as I can rely on it, the financial aspects aren't important to me.
 
shutmal said:
The SD series are a real bargain. I won one in a grand opening raffle and was impressed with the quality, but they are not an M&P. They have a totally different trigger that is TERRIBLE! After installing an Apex trigger I love it. Identical in size to a Glock 19, but lighter.
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SD 22.7oz. 1.30 in thick. 7.2 in long. 5.5 hight

G19 21oz. 1.18 in thick. 6.9 in long. 5 hight


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TTSH said:
A simple sale? No, I think it's a bit more than just that. It's an admission of the fact that plastic guns like the Shield can be manufactured for next to nothing... and the company can still make a nice profit at historically very low prices.
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Now, thats a bit of a stretch since we dont know any cost's......
<Thoughts continued below>

Arik said:
It's not an admission of anything. It's simply a sale. You sell more at less profit, but you sell and it actually makes more money.
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Close ;) (sell more at less and MAKE more can be true if we knew COGS, but we dont. We also dont know CashOnHand (COH). Example: inventory is packed....we already made our profits for this year and its in the bank. <remember, we are on fiscal month #8> Clear out inventory, even at a slight loss in order to create cash flow and protect whats sitting in the bank already. LOTS of complexities;) )

It actually IS an admission. They admit they have ramped up and dramatically overproduced and their inventory is "out of balance"

It is impossible to create cash flow with manufacturing or inventory....only SALES create cash flow. Whether profitable or not, (debatable at this point) cash MUST keep flowing.

.....hence, a marketing gimmick;)

Simple terms? "Supply-and-Demand" :D
 
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You do know that Glock's margin per pistol is about 68%
"In a 1994 patent lawsuit in the U.S., Glock estimated its profit margin per pistol at 68%."

Glock's Secret Path to Profits - Bloomberg

So selling your $500 Glock to police agencies at $200 is still a profit making business. I reads somewhere else that the manufacturing cost per pistol is about $75.

To the OP, you'll never sell your well used $500 Glock for anything close to $500 unless you are in California. If it isn't well used, then you're telling me you did buy the gun with the expectation that it will hold it's value.

Maybe you should have invested in Yugos.
 
rsrocket1 said:
You do know that Glock's margin per pistol is about 68%
"In a 1994 patent lawsuit in the U.S., Glock estimated its profit margin per pistol at 68%."

Glock's Secret Path to Profits - Bloomberg

So selling your $500 Glock to police agencies at $200 is still a profit making business. I reads somewhere else that the manufacturing cost per pistol is about $75.

To the OP, you'll never sell your well used $500 Glock for anything close to $500 unless you are in California. If it isn't well used, then you're telling me you did buy the gun with the expectation that it will hold it's value.

Maybe you should have invested in Yugos.
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down here in Tucson used glocks sell for the LOWEST I've ever seen at $400... the average for a gen 4 is $450... I have a friend who runs the gun counter at 3 pawn shops as a manager and he sells g19s and G17s all day long in under a week at that $450 price range for Gen 4s and $425 for gen 3s

the only time anyone comes CLOSE to $300 prices are those backpage scammers offering to ship from florida if you'll send them a money order

I've bought low at $400 on backpage and flipped for close to $500 and they'll go within 24 hours of posting on backpage... and I've only found those $400 glocks (that aren't beat to **** or 20 years old) THREE times in all my years of looking (and I LIVE on backpage... I have a auto refreshing browser tab opened all day)
 
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There's a store here in Sac that sells used agency Glocks for $370-$420 but only 1 mag. Several friends I've spoken to have bought from this store and said if you as the guys behind the counter nicely, you can get one that looks nearly new, not beat up with a bunch of holster wear.

But if I wanted a G17 or G19, I'd just as soon pay $80 more for a brand new one which is pretty easy to find locally also, I just don't have a desire to own one.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong....but I thought the fans of plastic have always mentioned their guns as being tools only.Not needing highly crafted steel and wood....not passing them down to family members when they go. You can't have it both ways and expect cookie cutter inexpensive products to hold a value.
 
Muss Muggins said:
You ever actually carry one?
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Of course not,......why would I? Would you carry a gun you didn't particularly like if you had dozens of equal guns that fit you better? There's nothing magical about Glocks,....they're reliable, utilitarian pistols. But so are FNs and Smiths and their ergos don't suck(for me).
 
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