Guns on aircraft...in checked luggage

[The Big D]

There have been threads re: this topic previously...but I can't find any of them so here's a new one.

Flew out of BWI this a.m. and when checking in announced that I had a gun in my bag that was to be checked. Agent said "okay" and dug out the form whilst asking: "Is it unloaded? Is it in a locked case? Answers were "yes, yes," of course. She then filled out the form for me to sign and directed me to place it in my suitcase. I complied, but she then directed me to show her the case containing the gun.

I removed it from the suitcase and showed it to her. It was a plastic Doskocil case. She then noted the TSA padlocks I had locking the case and said that was good because the case has to be locked. Though it does NOT, I agreed with her. She then asked me to tape the orange tag to the case. Did so and placed it back in my hard sided Samsonite suitcase.

I thereupon locked the suitcase (which is why the gun case, itself, didn't have to be locked) and passed it to her across the baggage scale. She then asked me to wait a few minutes as the suitcase went down the conveyor belt and added "that's so they can contact you if they need to open the suitcase." I said it, too, has TSA locks (built in) and she then said: "Oh, okay; you're free to go then."

I headed to the gate, boarded my flight, had a layover in Philadelphia for two (2) hours, then boarded another flight to my final destination. My suitcase actually beat me to baggage claim (imagine that!), and I went on my way.

Bottom line? No problems, as usual.

Be safe.

OOPS, almost forgot. The ammunition was in the Federal box in which it was purchased. They like that. That box was in the Doskocil case with the gun. That is absolutely permissible.

 

[Chubbs103]

The first time I checked a firearm in my luggage I was quite surprised as the young lady behind the counter directed me to open the case and show her it was unloaded. I opened the case and locked the slide back (feeling more the a little conspicuous with people behind me in line). She took one look and asked: "it is unloaded, right?"

She made me feel much safer.

 

[Wyo]

I've traveled a few times with handguns in checked baggage and never had a problem. Having said that, I flew out of Charlottesville, VA a few weeks ago with my wife. When we got to Denver we discovered that our baggage had been searched, our TSA-approved locks were broken, the luggage was ruined and a small Buck folder that my wife had in her suitcase was gone. I have no doubt that if I'd had a handgun in mine it would have been gone too, and I knew one other guy that had his stolen out of his checked bag about a year ago. I'm just not too sure about this any more.

 

[WC145]

If you look at the TSA website the gun case MUST be locked and you shouldn't use TSA approved locks since no one should be able to open the case without you present.
I've flown numerous times over the last few years with handguns in my checked and have never used a TSA lock and always retained the only key to my gun case, have yet to have a problem. When they've wanted to check it they've asked me for the key and checked it in front of me.

From the TSA website:

The key regulatory requirements to transporting firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage are:

You must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
The firearm must be unloaded.
The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.
The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you. Cases that can be pulled open with little effort do not meet this criterion. The pictures provided here illustrate the difference between a properly packaged and an improperly packaged firearm.
We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft.
You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.
You can't bring black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms in either your carry-on or checked baggage.

 

[jkc]

The "ticket agents" are unqualified to "inspect" firearms, and are always in an unsafe place to do so (no safe direction to aim muzzle) and by so doing, alert everyone observing to the presence of a gun in the luggage, which can easily be stolen by anyone who gets to the carousel first.

The whole "chain of custody" from the point at which you relinquish your luggage is corrupt, inept, unmonitored, unaccountable, and peopled by numerous thieves. It's amazing that anything of value arrives at its destination.

You can't help but submit to the FAA/TSA rules, but I wouldn't check anything of great value in my luggage after my recent experience.

 

[Wheelgunner840]

I deleted the story I had originally posted because I cannot find the link. If I do find it, I will repost the nightmare this Oregon man faced in NY.

WG840

 

[flyandscuba]

I travel by commercial airlines 3-4 times per month, every month -- and have done so since 2003. I carry a firearm (sometimes 2) in my checked bag along with appropriate ammo on every trip. I have yet to have anything come up missing. In a couple of instances, my bags have been misdirected or delayed -- but they were always delivered to me and the firearm(s) were still there.

I only fly Delta, and have never had an issue with one of their employees. However, I have encountered several instances with TSA employees where they were poorly trained and/or were not aware of what was permissible by regulation or the airline's policies.

My primary suitcase is a hardside that I lock. In addition, I pack the handguns in a hardside pistol case and lock it as well (no it doesn't have to be as long as your suitcase is a hard-side). All locks I use are TSA locks. I use the MTM Caseguard boxes for my ammo with a wide rubber band around the outside. I also pack my Microtech Makora II auto knife in the suitcase as well.

Sometimes I am told to put the signed declaration card inside the pistol case and sometimes I am instructed simply to lay it on the top of the pistol case. Some airports, I take the tagged bag to the TSA screener and in some airports, I am escorted by an airline employee -- or the airline employee takes the bag to them. In a few airports, once it is declared and the bag tagged, the ticket agent simply takes it and puts it on the conveyor (the case at my home-base airport). Bottom line, different airports have different procedures based upon where the TSA screen point is located (behind the scenes or out in front of the ticket counters).

I've discovered that a calm friendly attitude (even when the TSA folks are wrong) goes a long way in avoiding any issues or delays. I believe that you can travel relatively worry-free with firearms in your checked luggage and expect them to arrive with you. Having a well secured ID tag on your bag is a must, in the event the airline tag gets ripped off by some of the automated baggage systems (unlikely as they are quite tough these days).

Travel armed and enjoy your travels. As far as the NY issue or other Socialist/Communist states -- I try to avoid then whenever possible (if going to work in NY/NJ, I try to fly in and out of PA, etc)

 

[BarbC]

I often fly with guns and no two experiences and procedures are ever the same. I haven't had any problems, though.

The best one was when I declared at the counter and the female agent's eyes lit up and said she always wanted to learn how to shoot and carry. So I told her about NRA's Women on Target course and she wrote it down.

 

[7shooter]

I've mostly positive experiences transporting handguns on airlines. One that I found humorous was in MIA. A quite large female airline employee had me open the plastic case and show her my 1911 and a Beretta Tomcat. She looked at them and said " Ah hates guns " to which I replied " Ah loves guns ". Interesting meeting of the minds at the crossroads of urban and rural culture.

 

[venomballistics]

while it can be done, I far prefer private pilot methods.
ya check your piece to see if its loaded. stuff it in your holster, do your preflight and get ye gone

 

[The Big D]

The suitcase constitutes the gun case. In fact, you could simply put it in a cardboard box provided your suitcase (hard sided) is lockable. I just prefer to lock the case containing the gun, too.

Though the language could be more clear, TSA locks are permitted. In fact, there are many airports where you are not anywhere near your luggage once it is presented to the airline agent. There are also numerous airports where you accompany your luggage to the screening area. Your method would work in those airports; not in others lest the TSA folks be inclined to track you down to open your suitcase. They will open your luggage if they "find" something of interest at the bag screening area; TSA locks make it much easier on you.

Be safe.

QUOTE=WC145;135718514]If you look at the TSA website the gun case MUST be locked and you shouldn't use TSA approved locks since no one should be able to open the case without you present.
I've flown numerous times over the last few years with handguns in my checked and have never used a TSA lock and always retained the only key to my gun case, have yet to have a problem. When they've wanted to check it they've asked me for the key and checked it in front of me.

From the TSA website:[/QUOTE]

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

What the hell is a TSA lock??????????

 

[OKFC05]

What the hell is a TSA lock??????????

A lock to put on your luggage that TSA can open for inspection without destroying it.
The gun case inside the luggage is specified NOT to be a TSA lock on their website, but one that only the owner can open. In practice, who knows what most people do?

 

[venomballistics]

What the hell is a TSA lock??????????

I'd define it as ...
"a fictional device possessing the power to correct one of the larger governmental mistakes"

TSA has a different opinion however

 

[Wyo]

I should probably have been more clear. My baggage that was recently destroyed by TSA didn't contain a hangun and was locked with a TSA lock. They destroyed that too even though they could have just opened it. When I have traveled with a handgun, it has been in a hard gun case with a Master padlock, inside a hard-sided suitcase with a TSA lock. I'm simply saying that I am more and more nervous about having stuff stolen from my luggage, like my wife had happen on the recent trip.

 

[m1gunner]

Luggage checked in by the airlines isn't secure. It is only secured from the owner till it (hopefully) pops out on the conveyor belt at your destination.

There are many non-TSA and non airline employees that have access to your luggage, and a way to transport any goodies they find off the airport property.

Did I ever mention the #10 can of broken locks we would clean out of the baggage holds of each aircraft every year?

If you asre going to check something, make it dirty underwear and socks, everything else should be shipped, with full insurance.

 

[tomhenry]

There are many non-TSA and non airline employees that have access to your luggage, and a way to transport any goodies they find off the airport property.

TSA lost/stole my laptop - Topic Powered by Social Strata

 

[ldausmc1369]

TSA Cretins

I have flown over 3MM miles commercial in my job as a corporate executive primarily in sales and marketing over the last 35 or so years. Many's the time I have flown with both long guns and handguns as checked baggage and thus far, no problems. I invested in a heavy duty aluminum case with piano hinge and a bar that goes through all four latches and secured with a heavy duty Master Lock and a double locked Zero Aluminum case for binocs, ammo, knives, etc. This spring, after doing the declaration, I was advised to wait a few minutes and then clear security to give the bags time to clear TSA X-ray and screening. Cleared security only to be paged to go to a certain door. Did so and met this obviously mentally challenged TSA person who, upon my asking him who would observe him opening my cases, threatened to confiscate my guns, have me thrown off the flight and arrested for questioning his authority. I told him to do what he had to do. I couldn't keep him from it, but I sure could make him wish he had not. He then wanted to know if "I'm some kind of lawyer". Told him only one way to find out! He summons a supervisor, who flagged down an airport policeman. I explained to him what had transpired. The cop agreed to go observe the inspection and bring the key back. I was totally satisfied with that arrangement, seeing as neither the airlines, TSA or airport authority will take any responsibility for missing/stolen items. So, you can work with them, if cooler heads prevail!

 

[The Big D]

Honestly? I am about to give up. You try to help people and educate them that it's NOT a bad thing to transport guns on commercial aircraft and advise them what is possible/permissible/advisable.

Yet some folks who are apparently/obviously NOT cognizant interject patently false and misleading information.

What to do? I do not know.

 

[jkc]

The widely varying experiences testified to here illustrate the inconsistencies and incompetence rife in the "system". Best to have printed-out copies of all the FAA/TSA/ airline rules and regs in your possession, ready at hand, to settle arguments with the inadequately trained (or ornery, or anti-gun, or just plain stupid) functionaries you may have to deal with.

Also, as I learned the hard way, in a "lost luggage" incident which included a gun in the missing checked baggage:

The adhesive paper tag attached to your bags is the only way the airlines or anyone else has to connect you to your luggage, and its destination. I was reconnected with my twice-lost bag only because an airline agent with some gumption noticed my luggage tag, and called my cell phone number (from my business card) to inquire...

I advise that every individual item of checked luggage have a securely attached, robust, ID tag, with your name and contact info (hotel phone numbers, intinerary, cell phone number(s), etc.) so that if your luggage is late or misdirected, the airline personnel can find you, and have your baggage forwarded to wherever may suit you...

Knowing that the luggage belongs to John Doe doesn't help connect it to John Doe, wherever he may be, unless you tell them where, and when...