Guns on aircraft...in checked luggage

[The Big D]

Good points, jkc.

In fact, I have (now "had) two bag tags affixed to my suitcase. It has wheels so one tag at each handle site. One of the plastic tags got snapped in half this trip. Must replace and will adopt your idea of a stick-on tag to replace the broken one.

I have always had identifying info...including cell phone number...inside the gun case and a separate one inside the suitcase.

As noted in previous threads, I keep a copy of the policy of the airline I will be using on my person though I have been "forced" to use it.

Be safe.

QUOTE=jkc;135719684]The widely varying experiences testified to here illustrate the inconsistencies and incompetence rife in the "system". Best to have printed-out copies of all the FAA/TSA/ airline rules and regs in your possession, ready at hand, to settle arguments with the inadequately trained (or ornery, or anti-gun, or just plain stupid) functionaries you may have to deal with.

Also, as I learned the hard way, in a "lost luggage" incident which included a gun in the missing checked baggage:

The adhesive paper tag attached to your bags is the only way the airlines or anyone else has to connect you to your luggage, and its destination. I was reconnected with my twice-lost bag only because an airline agent with some gumption noticed my luggage tag, and called my cell phone number (from my business card) to inquire...

I advise that every individual item of checked luggage have a securely attached, robust, ID tag, with your name and contact info (hotel phone numbers, intinerary, cell phone number(s), etc.) so that if your luggage is late or misdirected, the airline personnel can find you, and have your baggage forwarded to wherever may suit you...

Knowing that the luggage belongs to John Doe doesn't help connect it to John Doe, wherever he may be, unless you tell them where, and when...[/QUOTE]

 

[The Big D]

UPDATED re: Guns in checked luggage on aircraft

During my weekend instruction had a few moments to ask a Special Agent who works for the Department of Homeland Security if, indeed, TSA locks are permitted. He said: "yes, of course."

When flying home I departed from an airport at which you personally convey your luggage to the baggage checkpoint after your transaction with the airline agent. (Unlike the airport from which I departed where the luggage leaves your custody via the airline agent and conveyor belt, immediately.)

I completed the form with the ticket agent, and she said it made no difference where I put it in my suitcase. She didn't ask to see the gun/gun case, itself, but did inquire if the gun was unloaded. I thereupon toted my suitcase to the TSA baggage checkpoint.

I advised the uniformed TSA agent that a weapon was in the suitcase. He said "no problem" and said to wait just a moment 'til it "cleared." That was just a moment. I then inquired if I could ask him a question. He said "sure." I asked if TSA locks were permissible. He said: "That's the best lock for any baggage." "Even for those with guns?", I asked. "Yes," he said, "because we sometimes do have to open bags and without TSA locks they often cannot be re-locked."

Now that seems rather definitive to me.

As an aside, at neither airport was I personally cleared through the backscatter (or whatever it's called) machine nor patted down. That I wasn't subjected to the latter was a bit of a disappointment.

Be safe.

PS:

The suitcase arrived contemporaneously with me at baggage claim in Baltimore. Seems US Airways is doing noticeably better in that regard.

 

[WC145]

TSA locks may be allowed but using them contradicts their recommendation that you be the only one with the key or combo to your gun case. It may not bother you but I certainly don't want anyone opening my gun case if I'm not there.

 

[The Big D]

You are apparently NOT paying attention.

There are airports where you will be nowhere near your luggage should the decision be made that it will be opened.

Be safe.

TSA locks may be allowed but using them contradicts their recommendation that you be the only one with the key or combo to your gun case. It may not bother you but I certainly don't want anyone opening my gun case if I'm not there.

 

[WC145]

You are apparently NOT paying attention.

There are airports where you will be nowhere near your luggage should the decision be made that it will be opened.

Be safe.

I pay attention just fine, perhaps you should reread the info from the TSA site -

The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you.

We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you.

The times the TSA have decided they wanted to check my gun that decision has been made at the counter or immediately after the luggage left the counter. In some airports they've asked that I stand by in the check in area for a few minutes to make sure TSA doesn't need my key. In each case that they've inspected my gun they've done it in front of me. I have yet to run into a situation where they wanted to inspect my gun after my luggage had left the check in area and they've had to look for me.

My point was, and is, I don't want anyone accessing my firearm without my knowledge. If I were to use a TSA lock on my gun case the chance of someone getting into my gun case without me knowing about it is far greater than if I don't. If the idea of people pawing around in your gun case without you knowing about it doesn't bother you then keep on doing what your doing.

 

[7shooter]

A little off topic. No gun along because it was Europe. I was recently in 11 airports in 9 days in the U.S. and two European cities. My 60+ wife ( innocent looking grandmother who is a retired school administrator ) got patted down in all but one airport and was circled several times by the bomb sniffing dog in Chicago where there was the ongoing scare about the Yemeni's sending bombs to synagogues in Chicago. It got to be a joke with myself and the other person who was traveling with us.
I know the TSA is doing what they are instructed to do but it seemed like incredibly poor target acquisition to go after some one who looks like my wife. I was only patted down one time and the other person with us not at all.

 

[WC145]

A little off topic. No gun along because it was Europe. I was recently in 11 airports in 9 days in the U.S. and two European cities. My 60+ wife ( innocent looking grandmother who is a retired school administrator ) got patted down in all but one airport and was circled several times by the bomb sniffing dog in Chicago where there was the ongoing scare about the Yemeni's sending bombs to synagogues in Chicago. It got to be a joke with myself and the other person who was traveling with us.
I know the TSA is doing what they are instructed to do but it seemed like incredibly poor target acquisition to go after some one who looks like my wife. I was only patted down one time and the other person with us not at all.

I think they choose the people they're LEAST likely to have trouble with, rather than those MOST likely to to be terrorists.

 

[The Big D]

I update this thread periodically; here's the latest.

Traveled to/from Orlando and returned yesterday. No problems checking in at BWI. They simply asked me to place the orange card in the suitcase...anywhere.

When checking in at Orlando the folks asked me to tape the card to the gun case and gave me the tape to do so.

Of interest, perhaps, is that upon my return to BWI I noted my luggage had been opened. Apparently TSA discovered something of interest at screening and checked it out. No idea what it was that interested them but perhaps they noted the presence of the gun and wanted to ensure I had declared it.

That said, I am surely glad I opted for TSA locks as they were able to open my bag and re-lock it w/o damage.

Be safe.

 

[ladder13]

Some what I'm gathering is that the suitcase needs a TSA accessible lock(this I knew), but the gun case should NOT have a TSA lock, but one that only YOU have the key for. Correct?

 

[The Big D]

Negative, Mike.

TSA locks on both the suitcase and the gun case. And, there is no requirement for both sets of locks, either. The gun could be in a paper bag if the hard sided suitcase is locked. Alternatively, the gun could be in a hard sided locked case within a soft sided suitcase. (Though I cannot comprehend why someone would choose the latter.)

The suitcase has combo locks with keyholes for TSA access. I use a TSA padlock that has a flexible chain to secure the gun case. I also use a trigger guard lock (non-TSA) on the gun itself. I prefer the redundancy even if not mandated.

As noted in an earlier thread, TSA does allow TSA locks currently though the website does not appear to be updated. Further, in Orlando one no longer needs to be accompanied to TSA luggage screening by an airline agent. Luggage now goes directly onto the conveyor belt at check-in.

Hope this info is useful.

Be safe.

 

[ladder13]

Now I'm really confused. Though I get that way easily. Don't understand the "only accessible by you" part. My quote to shorten the quoted reg.

 

[WC145]

Now I'm really confused. Though I get that way easily. Don't understand the "only accessible by you" part. My quote to shorten the quoted reg.

No one should be able to open your gun case but you, that means you retain the key or combination. That's the reason that TSA locks are NOT suggested for the actual gun case. Anyone with a TSA "key" would be able to access your weapon without your knowledge or permission.

The Big D chooses to use a TSA lock on both his suitcase and his gun case, which contradicts the TSA's statement about accessibility, but that's up to him. Personally, I don't want anyone being able to touch my gun without me being there.

 

[Retired LTC USAR]

If you are flying with an automatic, would you be able to remove the slide and place it in your carry-on luggage and have the frame in your check on (since the frame is the firearm)?

Would doing this not help deter someone from stealing your firearm?

 

[The Big D]

I don't think TSA locks were available at the time the regs were written. Moreover, I don't think the "only accessible only by you" provision implies the TSA cannot access your luggage. THEY CAN, LAWFULLY, AND DO. They did access mine yesterday.

I use TSA locks which have been viewed by TSA agents, and answers to questions to agents (see my previous posts) surely indicate they are permitted.

If the TSA wants to look at anything in your luggage...including your gun...they will do so. I prefer they do it so the luggage and gun can be secured anew once they are done. TSA locks enable this.

Be safe.

Now I'm really confused. Though I get that way easily. Don't understand the "only accessible by you" part. My quote to shorten the quoted reg.

 

[The Big D]

Good question but the answer is "no." "Firearm parts" must be in checked luggage.

Be safe.

If you are flying with an automatic, would you be able to remove the slide and place it in your carry-on luggage and have the frame in your check on (since the frame is the firearm)?

Would doing this not help deter someone from stealing your firearm?

 

[ladder13]

I don't think TSA locks were available at the time the regs were written.

Be safe.

Don't think so either, believe they were added later

 

[elm_creek_smith]

Remember that the people giving you the information verbally are the same folks who do body searches on small children and make dying cancer patients take off their diapers.

Also remember that the IRS agents who give you information over the phone aren't liable if that information is incorrect.

Just sayin', until the regulations are updated IN WRITING, I'd go by the regulations we can read.

ECS

 

[DubiousAlliance]

Flying with AR15 Lower Reciever in checked luggage

Anyone care to help clarify this conundrum?

I'm traveling in a few months with an AR 15 Lower Receiver. Checking the TSA site shows some conflicting information.

This page expressly indicates when you have to declare the item at check in, ie. Firearms, flare Guns, Starter Pistols HAVE to declared at check-in. However for "Parts of Guns and Firearms" only indication is it must be in checked baggage:

Firearms and Ammunition | Transportation Security Administration

However, on another TSA page, when checking for "lower receiver" you are advised to declare it as a firearm at check-in.

My TSA - Home Airport


Any thoughts?

 

[GaryS]

Interesting question. Personally, I'd declare it because the lower receiver is considered the firearm by the BATFE. It's the only regulated part of the gun, that is you have to buy it from a FFL.

That's just my thought on it and how I'd do it, others no doubt will think differently.

Anyone care to help clarify this conundrum?

I'm traveling in a few months with an AR 15 Lower Receiver. Checking the TSA site shows some conflicting information.

This page expressly indicates when you have to declare the item at check in, ie. Firearms, flare Guns, Starter Pistols HAVE to declared at check-in. However for "Parts of Guns and Firearms" only indication is it must be in checked baggage:

Firearms and Ammunition | Transportation Security Administration

However, on another TSA page, when checking for "lower receiver" you are advised to declare it as a firearm at check-in.

My TSA - Home Airport


Any thoughts?

 

[TAROMAN]

Yet more reasons to avoid flying.