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Well...they had that coming.
Gunshop owners sentenced to JAIL
- Thread starter CAJUNLAWYER
- Start date
Hear in N.W. Indiana we have had the A.T.F set up tables AND tour the show talking to sellers discussing the do's and dont' of selling & buying to people .They did a respectable job of informing all people pointing out possable problems that might arise. One thing they stressed [If a sale does not feel right you don't have to sell]
This all reverts back to an inspection in 2019, at that time he was given multiple warnings and instructed to clean up his act.
Zero Tolerance was not in effect then. Starting in 2021 the AFT started following up on the FFLs that were given multiple warnings previously. That was when it all caught up with him, he was indicted in September 2021. It takes time to process everything through the federal system. He was convicted in November 2023. And now the recent sentencing.
I've been toying with the idea of trying out MySpace before delving into Facebook.
Ah, Gunsmoke. He had issues miles long. Last I heard he was in a halfway house after his federal hitch.
My home town had a steak house open, they had a bar and were serving alcohol. They did great for about 18 months before the law discovered they didn't have a liquor license.
Lot of things you can get away with for a while if you a brazen enough. Prisons have lots of people who had zero long range plan
Lot of things you can get away with for a while if you a brazen enough. Prisons have lots of people who had zero long range plan
I guess I'll be the contrarian. yes, he should have obeyed the law. But in the bigger picture - why should selling firearms be any different than selling other hardware?
YeshuaIsa53
Member
That is one way to keep up with where guns are going.
OP
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
On that same plane, I would agree. Imagine if the ATF took over regulation of fishing reels and rods and we had to go through the same rigamorole when buying a Shimano Tiagra or a Shakespeare Ugly Stick? But it isn't-and that's that. Unless you want to be the test case
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When I had my license I got inspected every now and then. We did the 4473s then no bgc. It was kinda up to the dealer to know what or who he dealt with. I did occasionally have an incomplete form. Hey we're human and all make mistakes. I was involved a couple times with people trying to sell stolen guns. Sometimes you can just tell. I once dealt with the law when I got a shotgun out of the hands of a restricted person. I stuck it out of circulation. The guys mother called me up wanting to get the gun back and threatened me with the police. It did not go well with her...being a straw buyer. All said. I know it's not the 1950s anymore. I got my first gun at the age of 12 at a gun shop. ...I was taken to the store by a friend...There was no problem when he told the owner my parents said it was ok for me to buy it. I think the BATF has gone way beyond their original mandate when created. All hardwarw stores pretty much sold guns...be nice to just consider them as just another tool . We all know the average crook doesn't buy his (always available) guns from stores
On that same plane, I would agree. Imagine if the ATF took over regulation of fishing reels and rods and we had to go through the same rigamorole when buying a Shimano Tiagra or a Shakespeare Ugly Stick? But it isn't-and that's that. Unless you want to be the test case
I have a philosophical question for you...
I'm sure you understand the difference between malum in se and malum prohibitum. What is the moral justification for imprisoning people over violating a malum prohibitum law?
ACORN
Member
Would there be any criminal liability on the buyer if he were to have bought a firearm from one of these dealers? Assuming that they are allowed to possess a gun.
Can't tell you the number of suspects my son tracked down through Facebook. He always said that if the suspects could keep their mouths closed, their families couldn't.
That's easy. The people of a society get to decide the rules of society. We do this through representative democracy. Don't like it? Live in a different society.
One of the local shop owners is very diligent about not selling to anyone suspected of making a straw purchase.
She had someone come in with someone else who was literally told by the guy which hand gun he wanted. He then came back in alone about a hour later and wanted to buy that same handgun. She said "no" and told him why. He then tried to play the race card. However, she rewound a security video about 30 minutes showing her selling a handgun to another person of color. Then asked him if he would like her to go back a bit further and view his friend telling him which pistol to buy. He left.
Her biggest beef is that the local police won't prosecute and the ATF doesn't prosecute these attempted straw purchasers either. But they will happily try to set up sting operations to attempt to get her to sell to a straw purchaser.
OP
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
none whatsoever....but every malum prohibitum law (or most of them) have an underlying premesis of protecting against a injury to the person either directly or indirectly ,economic or otherwise. But your very valid point indicates the danger of the slippery slope of the government taking over control. Your question fuels very valuable and constructive debate. However my years of experience is that lofty questions such as this making their way through the alimentary canal of law making beginning with outraged public, to the legislature, to the executive, agencies tasked with enforcement and ending with the court to be applied to the real world, the end results are indistinguishable from the original juicy morsel debated.
And the courts are running out of toilet paper.
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HOUSTON RICK
Member
Lie down with dogs and you get up with fleas. I have had several upright tax clients over the tears unwittingly do business with tax cheats and end up being responsible for issues they never knew about that occurred years before they were owners. Sorry about Dave.
As I understand it, the Special Agent in Charge of an ATF (or Secret Service, or FBI, or DEA, etc.) field office has a lot of leeway to set local policy for his/her field agents to follow.
Regardless of local policies, if you work with these regulators, and don't act like a defiant nitwit, they'll work with you.
