Gunsmith rant.....bad taste in my mouth.

[rwsmith]

I inherited an old Colt Police Positive that was my grandfather's. Probably from the 30's. I'd shot it many years before, it's kind of a fun novelty and was in good shape. My grandfather was a security guard, I believe the gun was not fired a great deal. My dad didn't even know what ammo it took, and about 30 years ago I got him two boxes of .38 S&W. When I got the gun a few weeks ago only half a box was used. So yeah, it's old and worn, but I think except for the lock up it's in very good shape mechanically.

My Dad died recently and I ended up with the gun. I looked it over and when you cock it single action, it barely doesn't make it to lock up. If you TOUCH the cylinder, it snaps right into place. I thought I'd like to get it fixed so I took it to a local gunsmith. His counter man got him out of the back and I said, "I have this old Colt, that's just a hair from locking up tight..." He grabs the guns and says, "That's a Colt." I tell him the problems and he says, "THAT'S BECAUSE YOU ARE BABYING IT! THAT'S A POLICE GUN! YOU CAN'T BABY IT LIKE THAT!" I ask for the gun back and cock it hard, several times and show that it still doesn't lock up. He says, "IT'S OBSOLETE GUN, IT ISN'T WORTH FIXING! Then he turns around and stomps to the back saying BUT IF YOU DO I'LL COST YOU (amount)! It was a little more than I was willing to spend. Had it been around $100 I would have it done.

I have some other work to do but I'm a little leery about going back to this guy. He may be a good gunsmith but I didn't appreciate being talked to like a piker that didn't know a clip from a magazine.

 

[35Rem]

I'd stay away

 

[Jingles]

He probably didn't know how to work on Colts anyway. It isn't easy to find a good Colt smith these days. Personally I'd send it back to Colt. They have a backlog and aren't taking any new repairs until the end of summer, but it would be worth the wait.

 

[jinx]

I would not care if he is the best gunsmith on earth. I see no reason to darken his doorway again.

 

[Moonman]

Most good Colt Smiths have died or retired, the factory is your best bet.

 

[Rustyt1953]

The gunsmith has already given up on the gun. I doubt you will see his best work.

 

[ParadiseRoad]

...apparently it takes a special breed to be a Colt Smith...and apparentlly he ain't it...as Dirty Harry says..."a man has to know his limitations"...and apparently he does...probably from messing up a few old Colts...sounds like a worn hand...I would try to find a new one and carefully file it to fit...but I have some background in mechanics and machine work...I just won a Gunbroker Auction for a 1919 Colt Police Positive Special...38 Special...5 inch barrel...looks good in the pictures...can hardly wait for the FFL to call and tell me it's in...like a kid waiting to open that special package under the Christmas Tree...

 

[wogentry]

I know on the Colt Forum a lot of folks recommend Frank Glenn out Arizona way, for Colt Revolver work. You can google him or I can PM you the link as I'm never sure if your allowed to post links on this forum. I don't know Mr. Glenn nor have I had any work done by him. Just passing on what I've read.

 

[UncleEd]

Over on the 1911 Forum, a poster says he was turned down by Colt for service on his King Cobra. He says the rep told him nothing older than 10 years in revolvers will be considered.

When, by the way, was the last year Colt produced a DA revolver?

 

[islamoradamark]

i would be lerry also seems he has no manners and no appreciation of a fine pistol

 

[M29since14]

I understand you know a clip from a magazine so don't get angry with me. I suggest you take the Colt completely apart, soak parts in Kroil or something similar for a day or three, then clean thoroughly, dry, reassemble and lightly lube with Rem oil or similar. This will often cure such problems with S&Ws. If you've already done this, I apologize for being elementary but you didn't say so in your initial post.

 

[fiasconva]

There is a local smith that has a great reputation in this area and not too far from SC so you could ship cheaply. It's the Revolver Armorer in Suffolk, Va. Phone no. is 757-538-1361. Several members of my gun club swear by him. You can google them to get a few reviews.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

He spoke to you like that because he got away with doing it to the last person he engaged. Never let this kind of thing happen to you...An insult unanswered is the mother of another!

 

[rjm6120]

I would absolutely never go back either. I have that policy with a gunsmith whose shop is quite close to me. Treated me like **** when I went in to ask a simple question about his charge to do a pretty simple fix on a 1911. Never again for that guy if that's how he treats customers wanted to give him their business. Ended up doing the repair myself.

 

[UncleEd]

M29since14 has a good suggestion about opening up the gun and cleaning it thoroughly.

But at first that may not be necessary.

Take something like Gun Scrubber and with the tiny plastic nozzle supplied blast the insides of the Colt through the hammer area and up around the trigger and also into the slot where the hand moves the cylinder.

Let the stuff drain out and naturally dry inside. Then lightly oil by applying a bit of Rem Oil around the sides of the hammer so it runs down into the action.

One note of caution: If you do decide to take off the side plate on the right side, retain the cylinder release button with your thumb as you loosen the plate so the tiny spring under the button doesn't fly away into a mysterious land where tiny springs often go.

Also, undo the cylinder screw and remove the cylinder to wipe down and lightly reoil the cylinder shaft.

Often old lube/oil dries up, retarding an action. Two vintage
Smiths, namely from the 1970s, had dried gunk in the cylinder area and all they needed was a wipe down and a bit of Rem Oil.

 

[jmace57]

I would absolutely never go back either. I have that policy with a gunsmith whose shop is quite close to me. Treated me like **** when I went in to ask a simple question about his charge to do a pretty simple fix on a 1911. Never again for that guy if that's how he treats customers wanted to give him their business. Ended up doing the repair myself.

I have had something similar happen. I made a point to say I didn't appreciate being treated like that...and that I would make a point to tell everyone who asks not to patronize him.

 

[rwsmith]

Thanks everybody.....

I didn't think it was my imagination.

I've never opened a gun but I did think about trying this one myself. Maybe I will. The cylinder was stiff turning, so I did oil that up, and whatever else I would normally oil in a gun. I've got a couple of antiques, but I'm a shooter and I'd like this gun to be a shooter even if I don't use it much. If I don't do that I'll get some info from you guys for a REAL gunsmiths you pointed out.

And yeah, I should have just told him to kiss my ***, but I'd been wanting to stop in and ask about fixing the gun and that's where my mind was. He was flat butt wrong about 'babying' an SA/DA revolver. The thing should lock if it is cocked easy or hard. All my Smiths do.

 

[Frank46]

I'd seriously find another gunsmith. Had a so called gunsmith do a bolt handle alteration on a swedish mauser. What he was supposed to do was cut the old handle off and weld a model 70 style handle back on. Well when he showed it to me, I kinda lost it. I asked what part of the written instructions on the shop ticket didn't you understand?. All he did was reweld the old handle back on. Refused to pay for it and if he wanted to sue I told him see you in court as I had my copy of the shop ticket. Never used him again. Cost me $150 to get a tally handle installed on another spare bolt I had. Ruined the bolt and had the nerve to ask for another bolt to work on. Told him you ruined this one and now you want another one?. Yeah, find another smith. Frank

 

[Arik]

I like businessmen who don't like business. It's like a mechanic not wanting to work on an early 90s car. Who cares as long as you're being payed

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[Texas Star]

Bear in mind that pre-MK III Colts go out of time much sooner than do Ruger and S&W revolvers.

MOST of the older Colts that I've handled were out of time, and it costs a lot to repair them. A famous gunsmith said that he'd repair a friend's Python, but warned that it might go out of time again with less than 1,000 more rounds through it.

I haven't noticed this so much in Colt SA guns, but haven't handled many and have shot just one. Ruger SA's, of course, hold up VERY well, as do their DA guns. I think you can shoot a Ruger SA with reasonable loads and it'd probably need a gunsmith at some time before the Sun burns out, but it'll take awhile...

 

[rwsmith]

I'd just like.....

Bear in mind that pre-MK III Colts go out of time much sooner than do Ruger and S&W revolvers.

MOST of the older Colts that I've handled were out of time, and it costs a lot to repair them. A famous gunsmith said that he'd repair a friend's Python, but warned that it might go out of time again with less than 1,000 more rounds through it.

I haven't noticed this so much in Colt SA guns, but haven't handled many and have shot just one. Ruger SA's, of course, hold up VERY well, as do their DA guns. I think you can shoot a Ruger SA with reasonable loads and it'd probably need a gunsmith at some time before the Sun burns out, but it'll take awhile...

I'd just like it to be a shooter than just an antique heirloom gun. That's an antique heirloom gun that shoots. I wouldn't want to shoot it a lot and with soft loads at that. I shot it 30+ years ago and it's just a novelty being a .38 S&W. Kinda goes Bang! instead of BANG!

That's really lousy about a first class gun going out of time so easily. I especially didn't know that Pythons do the same thing. Well, I'm glad I didn't like them enough to buy one. Now Smiths are GREAT mechanically, but they have a hard time screwing barrels on straight. Colt is the superior performer in that aspect.

I will keep the Colt it as it was handed down but it bugs me having a gun that you can't use. I've got a very old double barrel 12 ga that will let both barrels off if you pull one trigger. And the barrel is swelled up so it would probably explode.

 

[rwsmith]

Sometimes I'd like to ask people...

I like businessmen who don't like business. It's like a mechanic not wanting to work on an early 90s car. Who cares as long as you're being payed

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Why don't you get another job? One that you LIKE.

 

[kbm6893]

I'm sure Colt has a forum. Join it and ask for qualified gunsmiths. They're a dying breed, but I'm sure some are still out there.

 

[federali]

Part Replacement

This gun probably needs a new cylinder advance, a simple job for any gunsmith or armorer. Considering a business' overhead costs, $50.00 plus the part itself would be fair and reasonable.

However, if the cylinder notches are worn out from years of use and abuse, you'll either need a new cylinder or need to retire the gun unless you're willing to manually lock it up for each shot.

 

[scooter123]

Just a few things to mull over. First, before the Internet most of us didn't even know how to check for carry up and we only got concerned about timing if we saw shaved lead on the forcing cone. We also didn't hear about revolvers getting "blown up" unless it actually happened at the range we shot at. What I am saying here is that IMO the Internet has made many of us hyper critical about stuff that has always existed and only very rarely caused someone any harm.

The second thing to mull over is how old your revolver is. I know next to nothing about Colt revolvers but I do know that the only way to obtain a hand for S&W revolvers this old is by finding a "take off" from another revolver of the same vintage. I would expect that correcting the timing on your Colt may prove to be rather time consuming simply because it may take a year or two to find the correct part to fix it. I also suspect that, just like S&W, Colt won't be willing to do a repair on a revolver that is this old simply because they don't have the parts to do the work.

I would suggest that you do a bit of thinking on this and be realistic about what it may require to get the timing corrected on your Grandfathers Colt. Once you do that you may conclude that the wisest thing to do is to keep it as it is now and shoot it in single action while manually locking in the cylinder for each shot.

 

[clang444]

Colt revolvers can have their hand stretched. The Colt Forum has some good info on how to do it:

Homemade Smithing Tools

I would first try cleaning the gunk out the action first as already mentioned. If the cylinder was binding their might be dried lube in the action too.

Your local Smith is covering his inability to work on the gun by making a lot of noise. He would be much better off just telling people that he does not work on old Colts. I'd never step foot in his store again.

 

[msinc]

Well, he is definitely NOT a good businessman...inasmuch as he might be a good gunsmith, but I have to doubt that too. As a businessman he should know better than to talk to/treat a potential customer that way. All that said, it doesn't sound like it makes much difference...you wanted to name your price to have the gun fixed, $100 or less{???} and that wasn't happening either so you left. Whether or not you go back is up to you.
On the one hand we have a customer that wants his gun, and a valuable gun at that, repaired. You don't get to say how much it should cost though, you do have the right to say "That's too much."
On the other hand is a gunsmith that should have simply charged enough to make it worth his time or politely told you he could not help you and why.
If I took the time to get every old obsolete caliber revolver that is brought to me in a basket, missing pieces, needing to be refinished and me not knowing why it was ever disassembled in the first place I would never get anything done. At least once a month I have to try to say to someone in a nice way that this box of junk parts that was once a revolver are now not worth anyone wasting a second of their time or your money on, especially since you probably wont be able shoot it even if I get it back together again.
Now, all that said...your gun is a Colt, so I would have absolutely fixed the gun...but, you have already stated that you believe you are entitled to have this gun fixed for $100 or less....so you still wouldn't have the gun fixed, been mad at me too and still ranting and looking for some mystical "public defender" type gunsmith. If you do in fact find this dude that allows his customers to tell him what they want to spend please let the rest of us know!!!!!

 

[Brasky]

Run far away

 

[epj]

This may be off base, but I seem to remember something about DA Colts locking up with the trigger pulled. The only Colts I own are a couple of Agents that don't have any problems. The older one was so stiff when I first got it that I could barely cycle the action. I flushed it out with brake cleaner and added some oil through the hammer. After a couple of treatments, it works like a Swiss watch. Go to the Colt forum. They will tell you how to fix the carry up if cleaning doesn't help.

 

[F75gunslinger]

Well, he is definitely NOT a good businessman...inasmuch as he might be a good gunsmith, but I have to doubt that too. As a businessman he should know better than to talk to/treat a potential customer that way. All that said, it doesn't sound like it makes much difference...you wanted to name your price to have the gun fixed, $100 or less{???} and that wasn't happening either so you left. Whether or not you go back is up to you.
On the one hand we have a customer that wants his gun, and a valuable gun at that, repaired. You don't get to say how much it should cost though, you do have the right to say "That's too much."
On the other hand is a gunsmith that should have simply charged enough to make it worth his time or politely told you he could not help you and why.
If I took the time to get every old obsolete caliber revolver that is brought to me in a basket, missing pieces, needing to be refinished and me not knowing why it was ever disassembled in the first place I would never get anything done. At least once a month I have to try to say to someone in a nice way that this box of junk parts that was once a revolver are now not worth anyone wasting a second of their time or your money on, especially since you probably wont be able shoot it even if I get it back together again.
Now, all that said...your gun is a Colt, so I would have absolutely fixed the gun...but, you have already stated that you believe you are entitled to have this gun fixed for $100 or less....so you still wouldn't have the gun fixed, been mad at me too and still ranting and looking for some mystical "public defender" type gunsmith. If you do in fact find this dude that allows his customers to tell him what they want to spend please let the rest of us know!!!!!

He has every right to put a number on the cost of repairing a gun and decide whether or not it's too much. But that number also has to take into account what the repair actually is. If it's changing a part with little to no modification it shouldn't cost that much. If it takes a great deal of test fitting or modification then that's a different story. He feels that for what he wants to use the gun for he's willing to spend $100. Considering the gun and condition I don't think it's unreasonable. He isn't willing to spend a great deal of money for the gun to be used on occasion, and it isn't a collector gun or something rare, so not worth throwing money at it.