Gunsmithing as a part time career

s1mp13m4n

s1mp13m4n

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Hello everyone. I am curious, does anyone do gun smithing as a job for a living or income? What type or training does it require? What is a realistic income that can be earned? What do you do day in and day out, the most common jobs? Where do you get training, education, experience?

Update:
Ok, here are more questions. I am realizing that a hardcore gunsmith is not for me. I am learning that an armorer or a "parts changer" and gun cleaner is more of what I am trying to do for some supplemental income. However, I am learning that an armorers course is for military and police. I am neither of those. How do I obtain this "basic" level of knowledge?
 
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If you do go ahead you will need a FFL to legally pursue this occupation you can not keep a reciever or frame overnite with out having it entered in your "Bound Book" it has been made a real hassel to try to do. Jeff
 
I never would have guessed that. That is over reaching of government. I could see maybe a limit of how many you had, just for the sake of keeping track and theft.

I had wondered about it for a hobby job. I have been trying to think of one for years, and I thought FFL may be more work then I wanted. Though it was a just a passing thought.
 
I am curious about what a gunsmith realistically does. Sure you have your high end types, but I am no Samual Colt. LOL I want to gain gun knowledge and learn more than just how to clean and shoot a gun.
 
I am a part-time "gunsmith", and work under the tutelage of a master gunsmith. I only do it one day a week, and only do it for fun. I can't see it ever paying the bills, and I don't think it would be nearly as much fun if it had to. I don't even care if I get paid.I put "gunsmith" in quotes because I'm really not. Never been to an accredited school, but have picked up a lot of skills over the last forty years of helping "real" gunsmiths and armorers. I play classical music in the shop and do a LOT of cleaning, replacing worn parts, un-fubarring weapons brought in with jammed live rounds, function testing, and test-firing. The "heavy lifting" is done by the master gunsmith - because he's smarter than me - and used to be a machinist. ;)
 
I went to Colorado School of Trades. I was never well suited to being locked in a rubber room toiling away at a bench. I went so I would have a much wider background when dealing with both employees and customers. Tough to get what your time is worth. I always made more money doing other things. Whenever I get pissed off working for the super wealthy and need a break I go back into firearms for a year or two. Then come to my senses when I look at my bank account. Good luck
 
My eyes are bad and my hands shake

I'm retired, but lately I've wondered myself how to get SOME experience just learning more about firearms and how they work. Call it 'expanding your knowledge'. There's no way I'm to try to practice it or make money and I could probably do the most good reading some books.
 
Yes you need at least an 01FFL for a Gunsmith business. But you can place a 'Gunsmithing Only' restriction on that 01FFL if you want to (many do not).
What that does is alleviate the need to list 'daily hours of business' that are normally required on the application and follow up renewals.
Those open for business hours are actually when the BATFE can walk in and do a compliance check w/o calling first which they quite often have done.
Wether they are the actual hours you are open to the public,,they could care less.
Most Gunsmithing Only do business 'by appointment only' and that is how the BATFE would their compliance checks. Only if in the case of some immediate need to see your records would they knock on the door in the middle of the night.

It also takes away your ability to buy and sell as an 01FFL. That can be a big disappointment when wandering a gunshow or someones gunshop and a choice piece needing a bit of repair shows up.

Many Gunsmiths are upping their license to an 07FFL (manufacturer) as the regs covering what is and is not 'the manufacture of a firearm' (for TAX purposes) is kind of hazy. Hard to believe isn't it.
Even restocking a rifle or shotgun to anything other than it's original configuration is considered 'manufacturing a firearm',,for Tax purposes (excise tax). You are tax exempt from the first 50/per yr,,but are supposed to file an excise tax return anyway.
Just like sales tax returns,,even though you may not owe any,,you have to file a return.
Don't forget about sales tax and other business licenses if you go into Gunsmithing.
It is a 'Federally Licensed Business' and you will be expected to run it as one be it a part time, a hobby or a full time endeavor.

General gunsmithing is a tough business just like a general mechanic. So much to know, so many specialized fields, tools, parts, ect.
Most that make it end up with a specialty or two that really make the money for them. Anything else is just extra income and it's strictly on a take it or leave it basis.
Many times specialty jobs are farmed out to another gunsmith (another specialist!) as they can do it faster, better and cheaper than you can.
You become the middle man, using your time to do what you do best.

Like most all self employment opportunities, lots of extra hours involved that you don't really get paid for. But if it's something you like to do and as long as that still applys, it can be a money maker.
When it just becomes another 'job',,look for something else to do or change direction within the trade.

I've done it for just shy of 30yrs full time,,before that part time for 20yrs. Kind of retired now to doing my own projects, but still taking on some work now and then. Always busy.
No formal schooling or training in it, but did work for a couple of gun mfg'rs for short times. Worked for a couple gunshops so you get to see a lot of everything.
Still 'old school' in the way of doing things and fields of interest.
I have no interest in the 'black rifle' craze,,but to those that do, that's fine with me.
I don't think many of those 'smiths are right now making a left side mainspring for a 1896 mfg Wesley Richards 12ga ejector shotgun.
Or restored & upgraded a 1924 mfg Marlin Trap pump shotgun last week.
But I on the other hand, know absolutely nothing about AK's and AR's
See,,everyone finds a specialty or two.
..there's customers around for everybody.
 
Holy cow AGI for the full blown professional training is over $4k. Wow, you would have to be serious for this as a career. No hobbiest would pay that. LOL
 
The professional schools charge far more and it takes at least several years.

There's an old gunsmith joke: "How's a large pizza and a gunsmith alike? Neither one can feed a family of four".

Most self employed gunsmiths are lucky to be making minimum wage, figuring in all the time they have to speed doing paper and tax work for the government, talking to customers, ordering materials, etc, etc, etc.

The few gunsmiths who make good money are those like Bill Wilson who own big gunsmithing companies employing a number of gunsmiths.

What work a gunsmith does depends on where he focuses his work.
Many have to be general gunsmiths who work on whatever comes in the door, and that's usually mounting scopes on rifles, "sighting in rifles" for hunters, deep cleaning really dirty guns, adjusting triggers, and correcting the botched up guns someone thought was a simple job and too easy to pay some gunsmith to do.

Some of us specialize. My specialty was repairing Colt double action revolvers, but I also did whatever was needed to make money for the shop.

To become a pro these days, the best course is to attend a top school like the Colorado School of Trades or Trinidad Junior College. These schools have an industry wide reputation for turning out stone cold professionals.
It ain't cheap or fast.

A smart new gunsmith gets a job working for a store or gunsmithing company.
This gives you a chance to really learn the trade, build up a customer base, establish a reputation in the trade, and buy all the equipment you need.

Still, opening a gunsmithing business is risky at best. For at least the first year you'll starve for lack of work, and if you don't have the financial resources to last it out, you'll starve out and fold, loosing your investment.
 
dfariswheel said:
The professional schools charge far more and it takes at least several years.

There's an old gunsmith joke: "How's a large pizza and a gunsmith alike? Neither one can feed a family of four".

Most self employed gunsmiths are lucky to be making minimum wage, figuring in all the time they have to speed doing paper and tax work for the government, talking to customers, ordering materials, etc, etc, etc.

The few gunsmiths who make good money are those like Bill Wilson who own big gunsmithing companies employing a number of gunsmiths.

What work a gunsmith does depends on where he focuses his work.
Many have to be general gunsmiths who work on whatever comes in the door, and that's usually mounting scopes on rifles, "sighting in rifles" for hunters, deep cleaning really dirty guns, adjusting triggers, and correcting the botched up guns someone thought was a simple job and too easy to pay some gunsmith to do.

Some of us specialize. My specialty was repairing Colt double action revolvers, but I also did whatever was needed to make money for the shop.

To become a pro these days, the best course is to attend a top school like the Colorado School of Trades or Trinidad Junior College. These schools have an industry wide reputation for turning out stone cold professionals.
It ain't cheap or fast.

A smart new gunsmith gets a job working for a store or gunsmithing company.
This gives you a chance to really learn the trade, build up a customer base, establish a reputation in the trade, and buy all the equipment you need.

Still, opening a gunsmithing business is risky at best. For at least the first year you'll starve for lack of work, and if you don't have the financial resources to last it out, you'll starve out and fold, loosing your investment.
Click to expand...

Ouch. Very interesting.
 
I am by no means a professional Gun Smith. I have taught myself over the last 35 years and have actually become quite proficient on the guns I choose to work on. The reason I originally got into this is because I had a so-called Gun Smith destroy two of my Colt Single Action Army Revolvers, Ivory grips, and I vowed right then & there I would never send a gun out again! Other than bluing (which I do not do) I have stuck to that over the years. I like working on Smith revolvers, Colt SAA's, Colt 1911's, Browning Superposed & A-5 Shotguns, Marlin lever guns, and maybe a few others. I am good with those and love to do so - on the other hand I have almost no experience with Glocks, H&K's, Sig's, AR's, AK's etc. etc. nor do I have any interest in them.

Because I do this for relaxation, enjoyment, sense of accomplishment, and pleasure I do it at my pace and I don't take short cuts. For a person to be a proficient and successful general gunsmith for all firearms, that person would need a high degree of mechanical ability, specialized tools, a well stocked parts shop, obviously an FFL, insurance, and a shop to work out of. Extensive training and apprenticeship is also a MUST!

There are a handful of super successful Smiths like Doug Turnbull, Ron's Gun Shop, etc. but I would venture to say that the average Smith across the nation makes only a modest living - if he is an honest and conscientious one. Being that we live in changing political times and the land of more & more rules, reg's and restrictions, Gunsmithing is NOT what I would think to be a very lucrative or "popular" field to go into for a living. As a hobby (as I do it for) that's a different story..........
 
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In addition to the items noted above, your shop location has to have approriate zoning and the Feds won't issue a license if you don't have it or can't get it.

While some mention has been made about tools, when you get into specialized tooling (altering shotguns for interchangable choke tubes for instance), the prices are steep due to limited market and the expense of the precision tooling. Lathes and milling machines plus their tooling will run about the cost of well equipped new autos.

Doing action work isn't as expensive to set up for, but experience isn't cheap. I got started when, like some others have noted, I couldn't afford anyone with a rep to do the work. I figured if someone was gonna ruin parts, I wasn't going to pay another person to do it.

You could (note conditionally past tense) legally do work without 'booking' the firearm if the owner stands right there while the work is done. However, remember the old sign: Labor rate $25/hr. If you watch, $45/hr. If you help, $100/hr.
 
The neatest thing about doing it for fun is that in the past year, I got to work on three (3) different Luger P08 pistols. Up until that first one came in (a 1917 Erfurt) I hadn't even held one in 20 years. The other two were less-rare DWM P08s. Two were 9mm and the last one was .30 Luger (7.65×21mm). They are a lot of fun to work on and watching how the clockwork-like action works is amazing. I got to test-fire all three, and in all cases, they hadn't been fired in at least 50 years. The 1917 Erfurt model broke the "ear" off the firing pin on the 8th round. I had to order one from Numerich. This gave me pause, as I didn't expect to be able to buy a part off the shelf for a 95-year-old pistol. A week later, it was shooting great again, albeit with a new firing pin that didn't match the numbers on the parts. The customer didn't care (I tell them that I'll test-fire them, but can't be responsible if something that old breaks when I do.) He was just glad to have it cleaned and have the assurance that it was safe for shooting.

Those pistols are a hand-made marvel, and I was giddy to work on them. Every major piece is stamped with the last 2 digits of the serial number, and is hand-fitted to the pistol. All you have to do is take the grips off, to see the action at work. It's pretty cool, made even cooler by the fact that it went together during WW1.

Makes it all worthwhile, after cleaning hundreds of Remington, Mossberg, and Ithaca shotguns that are so filthy that they don't function anymore. :)
 
gunsmithing as a part time caeer

S1mp13m4n:

I would contact AGI, American Gunsmithing Institute, (AGI.com) for all of your questions. They are great to work with and will help you with all of the forms and info you will need to become a gunsmith. You can start from the basic and progess to the master gunsmithing course. I started with the practical gunsmithing course, for hobbyists, and became certified. The cost of the course will be credited toward your next course and you can pay for the course on a monthly basis. You can do it right in your own home and at your own pace. My next progession was the certified law enforcement armorer. I completed that and I am certified in the course. You can become a Gun Club of America member, also affliated with AGI and thay have an iron clad intro for two months free membership including the magazine and DVD. I have been a member for almost seven years and have been completely satisfied. They are recognized by all of the manufacturers, Brownells, Midway for a discount on supplies ordered. You can contact Heather at the office and tell her I recommended the GCA and AGI gunsmithing courses. Click on to their website for many of the questions you asked on their FAQ or talk to Heather or any one of the staff counselors for their expertise. You have AGI professional master gunsmiths and staff to work with you all of the way. Tell Heather i sent you.

Nick
 
Another way to look at things would be,

to consider it the cost of a VERY GOOD COLLEGE EDUCATION,

with a minimal $$$$$ return.

A little like a History or Art Degree.


It greatly helps to be MECHANICALLY INCLINED, a Schooled Machinist, have

TOOLS and TOOLING (thousands $$$$$), Machinery such as Lathe, Milling Machine, Grinders,

Polishing Machines, Drill Presses, a Belt Sander.


A good habit for RECORD KEEPING, and now you have to pay EXCISE TAXES too.

You should go to a Gun-Smith school, of which there are very few in the country, or study under a MASTER GUN-SMITH, a dying breed.

One of the reasons for POLYMER firearms is that the manufactures are dealing with fewer SKILLED TRADES and a THROWAWAY SOCIETY.


Liability Insurance, FFL License, State Vendors License, Fire/Theft Insurance are but a few of your considerations.

A set of GOOD FILES, are very very expensive and in the hands of Master Gun-Smiths have created firearms.


An old test for APPRENTICES in the OLD SCHOOL ERA, was to take a block of Steel, a set of files,

and a Toolmakers Square, and file out a Perfect 1" Cube, then turn the 1" cube to a 1" Ball or Sphere.

A Master in the old Trade Guilds was truly a Master of his Craft.
 
If you need to actually make a living and support a family then it is a very tough road to hoe. If on the other hand you are like so many today who have a trust fund. pension or nest egg or just a safety net under you then by all means jump. I was in the business full time for two or three years then part time as I had to find other sources of income. I went to the schools in NC and PA and did my time with hands on training. Honestly I can’t see how one could become very proficient using hand tools and working in .000" with files and stones by taking an on-line course or buying a bunch of books. In a classroom environment there is somebody standing over you telling you how to stone or file and all the other little techniques and tricks that will not be found in a book or on-line class. But the big difference between an on-line or correspondence class is having an instructor evaluate your work right there on the spot. Somebody who can tell you the job is poor, passable, or good. It is my opinion that if somebody wants to learn a skill or trade seriously then they should be able to put in the time to learn it. It may not be cheap or convenient to move to where the good gunsmithing schools are located but that is the price you have to pay. And lastly going to the school will not automatically make you a good gunsmith. Just because you took a class or bought the books does not make you a good craftsman anymore than taking auto shop or algebra can make you a real mechanic or a mathematician. Not everybody has the temperament or hand skills for this trade

Finally the gunsmiths that are making real money have learned to branch out and make products associated with handguns or whatever. Guys like Ron Power makes fixtures, parts and tools and this is where the money is for him. Weigand is the same way and then guys like Jim Clark and Wilson started off making competition guns but spun into aftermarket parts and still sell race guns. To be successful and be able to handle what comes through the door you need or should have a good lathe and mill and be a pretty decent machinist. You need an FFL and it is best to have your businsess separate from your home for privacy reasons and insurance. Liability insurance is a big nut and running without it is like driving on bald tires. Doing any of this work for compensation and having a claim and you think you can push off onto your homeowners policy is wishful thinking and foolish in my opinion. You will have other people’s guns in your possession so you are responsible for them and for the work you do to them.

But if there is one quick way to get noticed and to generate work and serious income that is to have a gun writer in your corner. All it takes is one article in any of the gun rags and you are instantly famous. The gun writers can create and make an average gunsmith into a legend overnight. It makes no difference who it is as long as one of the gun writers promotes the gun or product and of course gets a trunk load of freebies. The American gun buying public worships anything printed in a magazine so therein lies your ticket to real success.

Good luck
 
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