Hammer stud broke on my 442

[wrangler5]

It's not just a broken hammer stud that they won't fix. I had a new 632 whose hammer stud stood just proud of the left frame surface. It seemed to function and shoot fine, but I mentioned it to S&W, they said send it in, and sent a shipping label. I assumed they'd just press the pin flush with the frame and ship the gun back, but when they got it they declared it unrepairable.

They will NOT return a gun they have declared unrepairable, and of course they have absolutely NO 32 caliber anything in their lineup to provide as a replacement. I offered to wait until they made another run of 32 anything, even if it took a year, but they said I had to pick something from their current offerings. I chose a 686, figuring it would be easy to sell, and got rid of it without ever cocking it. Managed to find a replacement 632 online somewhere.

 

[wrangler5]

Yeah, if they don't make it right, my next carry revolver is an LCR. < snip >

If you haven't tried one, I'd suggest you borrow or rent an LCR before you buy one. I sprang for one in 327 Federal (since S&W won't make a J frame in that caliber any more - apparently) and LOVED the trigger, which everybody swoons about.

BUT - the bore axis is much higher than a J frame's, which seems to me to make for a lot more muzzle flip. In addition, as a huge fan of a Crimson Trace grip on my carry guns, I found that the CT grip for the LCR has its laser bump in just the right place to smack the knuckle at the base of my trigger finger with every shot. (That does not happen with any of the 3 different CT grips I have on J frames.) I couldn't shoot more than a dozen shots at a range session with the CT grip before the pain got to be too much. I sold the CT grip, and no longer shoot the LCR, just haven't gotten around to selling the gun yet.

 

[GeoJelly]

The break is where the steel pin is pressed into the alloy frame wall. Any half-way decent machinist can have your gun functioning, which is worth keeping in mind as opposed to just putting it in a box somewhere.

Good info sir - but I don't think the pins are steel on the newer no-frills aluminum-framed revolvers like the 442, 637, and 642. I hope I'm wrong but I think the pins are aluminum too...

 

[ShivasIrons]

Try a 36-10. Weight is not that much different and it is all steel.

 

[Com 45acp]

Following...

 

[Muss Muggins]

Dude, they don’t care about your story and never will. Take what they offer and move on, or decline it and be unhappy . . .

S&W Gun Processing <[email protected]>

11:38 AM (1 hour ago)

to me

Dear Mr. Rea,



We are contacting you in regards to the firearm you returned to our facility for repair. The evaluation performed by our gunsmiths has determined that your firearm is unrepairable. The frame was damaged and was deemed not covered by warranty process.



Because we value you as a customer we would like to offer you a replacement firearm at a reduced cost, a new Model 442, SKU 150544, would be $357.00 plus any applicable tax and $15.00 shipping.



If you wish to take advantage of the offer please provide me with the name of the FFL dealer (city and state) you would like to use to accept this replacement. The FFL dealer will contact you to pick up the firearm once it is delivered.



**Please note: if there is anything you would like ANY AFTER MARKET GRIPS/SIGHTS returned to you off your firearm, please let me know as when you respond to this email.**



If you do not wish to take advantage of the offer, please let me know as soon as possible and we will return the firearm to you.



Regards,



Gun Processing Department

Sarah M. J. Harrop

Smith and Wesson/Thompson Center

Customer Service

Tel: (800)331-0852 x4042

Fax: (413)747-3317

cid:2C896679-02B1-4591-B929-FA193893D51F




This message, including all attachments: (i) May contain technical data as defined in the International Traffic In Arms Regulations (ITAR) 22 CFR 120.10. Export of this material is restricted by the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2751 et seq.) and may not be exported or transferred to non-U.S. persons without prior written approval from the U.S. Department of State; and (ii) Is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this communication in error, please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Thank you.
James J Rea

1:02 PM (0 minutes ago)

to S&W
I'm going to tell you a little story.

My Step Father, James Rhiner who lived in Franklin, Wisconsin at his passing, he was a California Highway Patrolman in the 1960's. He carried a Model 19 and has always been a proponent of your products. A few years before he passed away he bought this 442. Along with an M&P .45 full size with a safety. He also bought an M&P 9mm for his wife, my Mom and the polymer bodyguard revolver for her. All new, in the matter of a couple of years. I was handed down his Model 19 at his passing and I bought the 442 from my Mom because she could use the money. It was nice of her to pass down the Model 19 for no cost to me.

I like your guns. But I have to say that if this is how Smith and Wesson rewards people's business and loyalty, I am not a fan. I have been very active on www.smith-wessonforum.com and AR15.Com - Your Firearm Resource. (AR-15, AR-10, M4, M16, AK-47, and More!) and have been a proponent of your products. I even started drawing your guns last year when I was having some health struggles. You can see a few of the drawings here and an article written on The Firearm Blog about drawing them:

POTD: Drawing Smith & Wesson Revolvers For Art Therapy -The Firearm Blog

People are going to hear about your service to me and I am probably going to stop defending your company every time someone bad mouths you guys for having a lock on most of the new guns. Which is a huge issue for people. And my next gun will be a Ruger. I even bought a used 637 to use as my carry gun as I was waiting to see what happens with this one.

First off, if you're not going to cover it, I want mine back. I might try to source a frame and use the parts from this gun.
Secondly, I think it would at least be appropriate for you to replace the frame at no charge. If you're not going to do that I'd think the next best step would be to sell me a frame at a discount and not a whole gun. I can buy a new one at a dealer close to me for not that much more than what you're offering me. It doesn't seem to be like much of a discount. I think the stud pin breaking is an inherent flaw in your design and they should at least use steel studs in the airweights to alleviate that.

So if you're not going to do any of that, just send me my gun back and know you have lost a customer. I believe mine and my Step Dad's loyalty was misplaced. I nearly bought an SP101 before I bought this one from my Mom. Which I think would've been a better move in the long run. I do no regret it because she needed the money.

I had also bought my Step Dad's .45 M&P from her and I have to say it was a very inaccurate gun, in my hands. Compared to pretty much any other auto I have owned and shot. I sold it relatively quickly after acquiring it.

I do not mean to come off as a jerk and I don't want to make you feel personally responsible Sarah. I know you're just the messenger. But maybe you could either make a case for what I'm asking for with your superiors or at the very least communicate my disappointment in their polices and how they've treated this situation. It would be nice if my plea is fruitful and you all decide to do one of the options I've presented. Because I would also like to continue to be a loyal customer. But I will choose to not if this is normal practices for Smith and Wesson. I realize I'm not the original owner but for crying out loud my Step Dad was.

Sincerely,

James J. Rea

 

[gr7070]

While I'd certainly be disappointed my gun broke, I don't think I'd be upset with S&W.

Manufactured things break at times. S&W's products are well-made with rare exceptions. S&W's warranty is clearly for the original purchaser only.

If one acquired used that's a known risk they accept. I weigh that risk vs. the discount I receive when I acquire used. If the discount is great enough I acquire used; if it's not I buy new.

I don't understand being angry at S&W for not honoring something one has no right to.

Does it suck? Absolutely! I feel for you. Are your feelings justified? It wouldn't appear so.

Sorry, not trying to be rude, just honest.

Ruger makes a number of great models! If you choose to acquire one do so after your emotions settle and you make a decision based on facts and reason.

Ruger has absolutely no warranty. None. They are well known for taking care of their customers, though. S&W has a similar reputation and provide written obligation to do so for original owners.

I try to make good decisions based on the applicable circumstances. If that means buying great products that S&W offers I do so, and leave my nose intact to my face's content.

Good luck and good shooting!

 

[Dennis]

My LCR9 ended up with a stuck forward firing pin. Sent it back, came back fixed. I sold it right away.

 

[Rick_A]

That's why my S&W's are soon to all be current models I have purchased new.

 

[Pizza Bob]

E-mail incoming

 

[mikerjf]

Great thread, and something to be concerned about. Hope S&W is listening to you, I am and it's having an affect on my plans.

mikerjf

 

[Bill Lear]

You know this situation has had me thinking, and examining how my other revolvers are made. I never really gave it much thought, but now I'm wondering why S&W designed the alloy J-frames to use a steel hammer pin pressed into a fairly thin aluminum side wall? An AR-15 uses even thinner side walls but the hammer pin goes all the way through and that is the "traditional" way of doing pins - or screws.

After taking one of my 642s apart and analyzing it for how I would go about fixing this type of break, the hammer pin is located below the plane of the cylinder latch and could very easily pass through and perhaps be threaded in place versus "crimped in" which it certainly looks like.

I don't shoot my J-frames much so I probably will never have the "opportunity" to fix what doesn't break, but now I'm kind of interested in modifying one of mine just to prove the concept. I wouldn't worry (too much) about the hammer pin suddenly deciding to break in the middle of a gunfight, but as they saying goes, "If it can go wrong, it WILL (not might) go wrong."

Building a steel frame this way is no problem, but when they started doing alloy, they should have considered a through pin, thread with an inside flange.

 

[ABPOS]

AFAIK, the pins are aluminum. Which I believe to be not necessarily a good decision. And there have been others on here that have had similar issues with them. Also, AFAIK, they use steel pins on the M&P revolvers, mostly likely because they are .357's. But then if they are braking somewhat frequently on .38's I think it's not the best choice. There's no way they're doing it for weight savings. It can't weigh that much more to use a steel pin there. Or anywhere in the gun a pin is needed.

I understand the argument that it's not their fault and they're not liable because I'm the second owner.

However, I'm only the second owner cuz my Dad passed away. I mean c'mon. It's the same family as the original owner. If he passed away and my Mom had it and had issues with it, and if it was bought in my Dad's name and not hers would that not be considered an original owner? He is my step Dad and has a different last name.

Secondly, if it is deemed uncovered, I think there are more appropriate responses than a whole new gun, at a "Discounted" price, that really isn't much of a discount. If at all. Some online sellers sell them cheaper than that I'm being told and when you put tax and transfer it's not that much cheaper than if I went and bought one from my local dealer.

PLUS, why can't they sell me a frame with a barrel at a discounted price? OR full price. That costs as much as a whole gun? I would think it shouldn't.

Honestly, I don't think they're doing good by me and that's my opinion. Everyone is entitled to theirs and maybe I'm being unreasonable.

But if I busted something on one of my cars while trying to work on it... For example, this is what it would be like to me.... Lets say every time I pulled out my air filter on my car, it was dirtier than normal... Then I attempted to take it apart more fully to see if there was a reason for it and busted some of the assembly while doing this. OK, need to fix that. I either take it in to the Ford Dealer or go there and try to buy the parts myself. If they told me to buy a whole new car for the sale they are running now (that is offered to everyone else), I think most people would think that's ridiculous.

It should be able to be fixed with either the help of them or on my own and there are clearly ways it could be accomplished without having to buy a whole new gun. Some say you can actually do a repair job on a broken hammer stud and other gunsmiths offer it. For much less than a price of the gun. If they can do it, so could Smith. To me, something's not adding up.

Heck offer a steel frame to me for a discounted price. AFAIK, these things are not hand fitted and I've seen people swap cylinders to other frames no problem. Just need to check the gap for spec and make sure the hand is working right....

 

[ABPOS]

Dude, they don’t care about your story and never will. Take what they offer and move on, or decline it and be unhappy . . .

I wanted to make clear to them that although I'm not the original owner, I'm the son of the original owner. Do you really think that's an appropriate response to say, pffffft, you didn't buy it? Like I said in my other post, if it was Mom that had the gun and this happened and it was his name on it and not hers, they would say no, you're not the original owner? I mean it's the same family. I do have a different last name, but I'm his step son.

That was my motivation for telling them that. Not to spin stories that were not applicable to the situation.

I did give my Mom 400 dollars for it. I mean... Actually maybe it was 350. One of the two... Just FYI. I know that part isn't going to matter to them.

Anyways.....

I had put less than 1k rounds through this thing and I know he didn't shoot it much. I did dry fire it quite a bit though.

 

[gr7070]

I think there are more appropriate responses than a whole new gun, at a "Discounted" price, that really isn't much of a discount. If at all. Some online sellers sell them cheaper than that I'm being told and when you put tax and transfer it's not that much cheaper than if I went and bought one from my local dealer.

I don't take exception with the rest of S&W's actions here, but I find this rather offensive! If it can be found cheaper elsewhere that's not a discount whatsoever.

Offer a true discount beyond what can be found via retail or none at all, a pseudo-discount is just upsetting.

As for the parent owning it, unfortunately I don't think it matters any; not that my opinion matters to any but me.

It's unfortunate you're in this position.

 

[ABPOS]

Yeah, it just seems like a cop out. Here, a gun 6 years old busted and we'll sell you a new one for the price of almost retail. Good deal eh?

I don't know. Maybe my thinking is all off. A lot of guys on arfcom saying I'm being jerky expecting too much. Maybe I am. And yeah maybe I should have been nicer when I emailed them.

Oh well. Live and learn. I'm trying to wrap my head around how I feel about them after this. And then go from there. At this point I still think I'm justified in being dismayed by their response. But maybe I'm over-reacting.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I wanted to make clear to them that although I'm not the original owner, I'm the son of the original owner.

You did that in in the first two or three sentences . . .

Not to spin stories that were not applicable to the situation.

You wrote six or seven paragraphs about other S&W products you didn’t like, threatened to damage S&W’s service reputation on discussion forums, and talked another gun manufacturer that you preferred.

 

[BigBill]

No matter what brand and what design revolver when purchased new or used i disassemble the whole gun and lube every metal to metal contact moving part with a moly paste. Nothing runs dry. I also shim the hammer so it’s centered in the gap.

 

[ACORN]

I don’t think the OP is being unreasonable. I call and ask to talk to someone further up the food chain. Explain what you were offered vs what you can purchase new for. Can’t hurt.