Handejector .455 converted to .45 colt

[Jim G]

I have a British/Canadian? marked handejector from the early 1900's, or so I have been told, which was converted to .45 colt. It shoots just fine but the outside of the rims on the cartidges must be slightly rebated to prevent the hand from dragging on the cartridges. It appear as if the outside corner of the hand impacts just enough on the outside edge of the cartidge case head to make a pin size mark on the case head. A file and a hand drill properly chucked to fit the inside of the case and running the case so to create a slight bevel around the outside back of the rim solves this problem but is, of course, a PITA.

If I take a slight bit of the corner off of the top of the hand will it still index properly? Other ideas?

Thanks,

Jim G

 

[glowe]

According to Barnes book, the standard dimensions of the rims indicate that a 45 Colt rim (.512") is .012" larger diameter than a 455 rim (.500"). That would mean the rim extends only an extra .006" beyond where the 455 would chamber. I checked my ammunition and found the opposite - my 455 factory Ficcochi rim is .520" and my 45 Colt (Remington brass) is .500". I have not had any problems shooting the Ficcochi ammo in my original chambered 455.

Is your hand solid, without any side to side play? If so, at worst, the problem should be solved with a very small bevel on the corner of the hand.

 

[Waidmann]

Most .455 conversions chamfered or slightly recessed the cylinder,as well as deepening the chamber. A few attacked the shield.

I counsel caution. Have you checked all the other avenues, ammo brands etc.?

 

[Jim G]

glowe,

Hand is solid without obvious play.

Waidmann,

I believe the cylinder was not worked but the shield was and chambers bored out for .45 colt. I am using very light loads that I use for cowboy action shooting. Interestingly, the .452, .454, and some .456 bullets I found for the original .455 cartridge all shoot equally well in this gun which is quite accurate.

Thank you both,

Jim G

 

[Scary Gary]

I just looked at mine and the cylinder is recessed and deepened.
I just got it and shot it this weekend using cowboy action shooting rounds and it shot flawlessly. Absolutely love this gun.

 

[Jim G]

Waidman,

By the way, the issue persists irrespective of type of brass or ammunition used. Am tempted to do a slight bevel to the corner of the hand but will wait to see if anyone else has an opinion on this. Given the info from glowe re rim sizes it leads me to believe this may not be the original hand in my gun or it would not have cleared the edge of the original .455 cartridge rims. It also would seem that the original hand would protrude from the shield when the system was at rest if my theory regarding the shield having been reduced is correct unless the hand was also worked down or replaced as well.

 

[glowe]

Is there a serial number present on the rear of the cylinder? I added pictures of my original 455 so you might compare the cylinder and the back shield. That might tell you which had metal removed. The shield picture shows the hand at rest at the very bottom of the slot. It is flush in this position and I noticed that it is the same width as the slot, so no room for movement. Even if yours was replaced, it would still have to be the right width to work.

It is a bit of a mystery why you are seeing the marks on the brass, since, given the rim diameters, there should be no contact with the hand when shooting either cartridge.

 

[Waidmann]

If you believe the hand was replaced, they were generally oversized. Jerry Kuhnhausen's Colt DA Revolver shop manual discusses installing/adjusting a new hand on pages 157-159. Worth a read. I realize the Pony is ***-backwards. I don't have the equivalent S&W resource.

Good luck.

 

[Jim G]

glowe,

Thanks, I will check when I get home. Don't know the answer yet but that hand is definitely impacting the rim on the back maybe a 32nd or less of an inch from the edge. Tiny little impact dot is visible and the cylinder will still rotate but more force is required than I care to put on it. That "dot" makes me believe the hand may just have a high corner on it.

Waidmann,

Thanks, I will look it up.

Jim G

 

[Jim G]

glowe,

Checked and the cylinder has the same markings as yours with serial #115xx while the shield has obviously been shaved. The hand face is about 3 times thicker vertically than yours or either of my 25-5 or model 22 repro of the 1917. Either the hand was cut so as to not protrude from the shield when at rest or was replaced. I am wondering how it even fits in the star but it does and worried as to the indexing accuracy if I take a little off of the corner of the face which looks more like a square that the slim rectangle on your handejector or my other newer guns.

 

[glowe]

Jim, as I think about how the hand actually contacts the cylinder star - as the cylinder turns, the hand's bearing point changes from center to inside. As the cylinder rotates up toward the locking point I think the last push is from the inside of the hand, so taking the outside edge off should not affect the action. Only a guess at this point since it is impossible to see in there.

The other option is that the hand is so tall that it gets tangles up in the star slot and is forced into the already fired cartridge? I would check to make sure when the cartridge is contacted by the hand - as the fresh cartridge is being moved into battery, or after the fired cartridge is moving away from battery. I suppose that there is a chance that the inside of the hand could be involved if the latter is the case.

 

[Hondo44]

I agree with Glowe. All my Smith hands have the outside corner knocked off. I believe it's a replacement and not correctly shaped. Take off a little at a time until it stops marking the case head. With a Dremel tool you can do it in the gun with the sideplate off and test it w/sideplate off.
Then flush out metal dust with a spray lubricant.

 

[Jim G]

Hondo44 and glowe,

Since the face of my hand is actually more like a square than a thin edge, like on my other S&W's, it actually has an inside & outside edge rather than just an inside & outside corner. So, there are two corners on the inside edge and two on the outside edge, a top corner and a bittom corner, on each. I would think that the bottom corner might be the problem whether it's on the inside or outside. Any thoughts on this? I still cannot figure how the darn thing even works given that it is so much larger on its face than a normal hand.

Thanks guys,

Jim G

 

[Hondo44]

Hondo44 and glowe,

Since the face of my hand is actually more like a square than a thin edge, like on my other S&W's, it actually has an inside & outside edge rather than just an inside & outside corner. So, there are two corners on the inside edge and two on the outside edge, a top corner and a bittom corner, on each. I would think that the bottom corner might be the problem whether it's on the inside or outside. Any thoughts on this? I still cannot figure how the darn thing even works given that it is so much larger on its face than a normal hand.

Thanks guys,

Jim G

Look closely at the ratchet teeth and you will see marks made by the hand where it contacts the teeth. That will tell you which corner of the hand is actually pushing the cylinder around. You can take off the others to look like your other Smith hands.