I do not own a .357, but I carry a LCR .38 sometimes. Two things I don't like in a carry gun: excessive recoil and blast. The .357 has both. I used to carry .40, but realized that I can hit what I shoot more accurately and faster with 9mm. So, shooting .357 out of a buddy's Ruger Redhawk. No big deal. Shooting it out a snub nose, I'll pass. I'd rather sacrifice power for accuracy. Also, I don't know if you've ever shot a gun indoors without hearing protection on, but it is not fun.
"Handguns and Defensive Weapons"
- Thread starter Lon C.
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Retired Cop
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In real life, not forum bluster, the S&W model 36 is still a staple for self defense carry. In a real gun fight, it will only last seconds. There will be on average 3 shots fired. You will never get a chance to use your over priced night sights and you will damn lucky to even get your gun out of the holster first and hit the target. The last one I was in, I was lucky to hit the assailant in the top of his foot. He gave up the fight immediately.
Just look at the recent self defense shooting in Florida that is causing media melt down over the "STAND YOUR GROUND LAW". That was one shot of .380 at 8 feet into the torso with a Kel Tec P3AT. The assailant ,well over 200 lbs, walks away immediately but dies minutes later.
The most important thing in a gun fight is to have a gun...period. Caliber is a none issue! Been there, done that and even took home the T-Shirt more than once!
fredj338
Member
I love the 145gr STHP but it is not a full power 357mag load.
fredj338
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Just look at the recent self defense shooting in Florida that is causing media melt down over the "STAND YOUR GROUND LAW". That was one shot of .380 at 8 feet into the torso with a Kel Tec P3AT. The assailant ,well over 200 lbs, walks away immediately but dies minutes later.
The most important thing in a gun fight is to have a gun...period. Caliber is a none issue! Been there, done that and even took home the T-Shirt more than once!
So good thing the victim didn't have his own weapon or press the attack, because the com hit did not stop him, just discourage him. Yes to a point caliber doesn't matter but more powerful rounds with the same accuracy do often have a greater affect on their targets. One reason I do not carry a 380.
You got some good answers above.
With respect to small, easy to conceal, lightweight revolvers, .357 Magnum loads are a problem, I don't care who you are. .38 Special loads can even be a problem in very lightweight guns. Huge amounts of recoil, inability to get a quick second shot off, etc.
Since I carry .38 Special caliber revolvers far more often than I carry 9mm pistols I solve the recoil problem by carrying all steel guns. Even an all steel M649 is easy to shoot and get follow up shots from. That's why I gave up my M642 for my 649.
My other option is a snubby K frame. There is minimal recoil once you are shooting a heavier, all steel K frame in .38 Special. Plus you have six rounds to get the job done.
As for preferring .38 Special over .357 Magnum, even while carrying a snubby Model 19 I would never load it with full house magnum loads. I save those for L frames in the field. My home defense L frames don't even get .357 Magnum loads. I can get the job done with quality .38 Special rounds and I don't have to worry to excess about over penetration. If I have to fire a gun indoors for self defense I don't want the bullets making it to my neighbor's house. Outdoors as well, but now the entire outside world is subject to over penetration. Let the bullets stop in your assailant. Jus' sayin'....
As you can see from some of the above replies, the answer varies considerably with the weight of the gun, the fit of the gun to the individual, and the skill, experience and reactions of the individual. Many .357 rounds are a LOT better than most .38 Special rounds, but they are usually VERY LOUD, and often accompanied by a lot of muzzle flash, which might matter after sunset.
If you like shooting your .357, it is a GREAT defensive weapon. Pity the ******* that are scared off by the thought of using one.
If you like shooting your .357, it is a GREAT defensive weapon. Pity the ******* that are scared off by the thought of using one.
I've never enjoyed shooting anything more than my old 1962 Ruger Blackhawk 3-screw .357 with the 7 1/2" barrel. I put oversized rubber grips on it and it had perfect balance and the recoil was very manageable with any ammo. I had a friend that was learning to reload and he made some really nasty rounds.
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Ribwizzard
Member
Interesting comments, 3 minute gunfights and ..380's are ok because they will eventually blead out.
You know, I've got two fists, and if all I'm dealing with is a mouthy 160lb twerp, I'm not going to be pulling no weapons. And if it's an event I can escape from, that's is what I am going to do first.
It's the coked out 350 lb. Gorilla, the active shooter with body armor, the terrorist with a death wish that I am preparing for.
I want to put that kind of threat down fast, with one shot, and dont want them talking to no lawyer afterward. All this talk about light guns and managing recoil, well that is why you train, isn't it? Luckily my two gunfights ( actual shooting) had me holding a shotgun the first time and a ar15 the 2nd time. I just about bit the dust the first time because I had never used a double barrel with internal hammers, but was only 18 at the time as well. But both lasted more than 3 minutes, that's for sure.
You know, I've got two fists, and if all I'm dealing with is a mouthy 160lb twerp, I'm not going to be pulling no weapons. And if it's an event I can escape from, that's is what I am going to do first.
It's the coked out 350 lb. Gorilla, the active shooter with body armor, the terrorist with a death wish that I am preparing for.
I want to put that kind of threat down fast, with one shot, and dont want them talking to no lawyer afterward. All this talk about light guns and managing recoil, well that is why you train, isn't it? Luckily my two gunfights ( actual shooting) had me holding a shotgun the first time and a ar15 the 2nd time. I just about bit the dust the first time because I had never used a double barrel with internal hammers, but was only 18 at the time as well. But both lasted more than 3 minutes, that's for sure.
A lot of folks seem to be hitting the nail on the head here. I have shot a whole lot of 158gr .357 magnum and learned that the best technique for rapid follow up shots if high hand hold, lock the wrist and elbow and let the energy be absorbed at the shoulder. Keeps the line steady during recoil and bounces the front sight right back down on target. I have a decent amount of experience with a variety of magnums including the 640, TRR8, 66, 686, Python, King Cobra, LCR and that method works with all. It is not universal for all calibers, .44 and for some reason .40 cal are not my friend. I always load .357 for carry
Ribwizzard
Member
And do a lot of practice where you pick a spot, close your eyes and aim the gun at that spot , then open your eyes to see point of aim.
I feel that learning the point of aim helps get you back on target faster, than trying to muscle it to stay on target. For me at least. I can muscle a .357 j frame up till the 4th shot, by the 5th I've lost my grip. Now I shoot with more relaxed arms, but a very controlled bounce. Like swinging a hammer from the very end of the grip.Dunno, hard to explain.
I feel that learning the point of aim helps get you back on target faster, than trying to muscle it to stay on target. For me at least. I can muscle a .357 j frame up till the 4th shot, by the 5th I've lost my grip. Now I shoot with more relaxed arms, but a very controlled bounce. Like swinging a hammer from the very end of the grip.Dunno, hard to explain.
REM 3200
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They are not mine. You can thank the internet, that's where I found them.
Before I copied them, I looked for a name associated with them to ask permission to copy,
found none so here they are.
Easier to beg for forgiveness. . .
shouldazagged
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I don't think hand and wrist strength and recoil control have much to do with physical stature. I've watched a petite woman--okay, she was solidly built for 5'1", but no heavyweight--doing fast, accurate second shots with an L-frame .357 Magnum. I got the impression she could manage the magnum stuff n a J-frame as well.
Old age and advanced arthritis now limit me to .38 Special +P in a steel gun; but before Father Time and Arthur ganged up on me, I felt no need to carry .357 in a J-frame, my preferred carry gun. With the exception of the ability to set an attacker's clothing on fire in a really close encounter, I just didn't see that much advantage of the magnum over what I've carried for twenty years. I sold my last .357 years ago.
Color me stubborn, I guess.
Old age and advanced arthritis now limit me to .38 Special +P in a steel gun; but before Father Time and Arthur ganged up on me, I felt no need to carry .357 in a J-frame, my preferred carry gun. With the exception of the ability to set an attacker's clothing on fire in a really close encounter, I just didn't see that much advantage of the magnum over what I've carried for twenty years. I sold my last .357 years ago.
Color me stubborn, I guess.
Recoil control on a nice, sunny range day is one thing. It could be quite another in a self defense scenario while suffering a broken wrist or collar bone after being blindsided and knocked to the ground. Yes, there are plenty of people who can shoot .357 out of a small revolver like a boss, but no matter how well they shoot it, you can bet they shoot .38 better. For myself, I want to carry something that I can shoot confidently on my worst day ever because if I ever have to shoot in self defense, it likely will be.
RGVshooter
Member
Recoil is manageable. You have to practice and practice often with your choice of carry. You have to have the right mental aspect of how you approach it. If you go in there afraid of the recoil, you're going to flinch, and flinch badly. You have to be confident in the gun you have. Get a good firm grip, focus on push pull technique. Slow trigger squeeze, and you'll be fine. Don't let the bark discourage you from the caliber. I've seen all sorts of shooters from small petite women to large 300lb gorillas. It's not the pistol or the caliber, it's you, the shooter.
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Would you be willing to stand in front of a .380???? Why hell no you won't and neither would I.
I had a nut shoot at me with a 1911 and a 230 grain ball round. The round hit me in the duty belt and was stopped by my pants belt underneath. (2) 158 grain .38 special rounds in return put his lamps out for good. When I was hit, it didn't knock me down or even backwards any. It felt like being hit with a pitched baseball while at bat that's all.
These myths about knock down power and just that myths. We all know that every action has an equal and opposite reaction by the law of physics. Knowing that, any gun that could shoot a knock down round would knock the shooter down when he shot it. I was bruised but still here.
Our military are issued high powered rifles for a reason. A .22 caliber bullet moving at 3,000 FPS does a lot of damage on the inside bouncing around. Just ask Congressmen Steve Scalies who took a NATO 5.56 (.22 caliber) to the hip a while back.
Handguns are very poor man stoppers, regardless of caliber. Shutting down the central nervous system by a head shot will stop just about anything that moves on GOD"S green earth and again caliber is irrelevant.
Carry what you feel comfortable with and be safe out there. It is a nasty dirty world and that I can tell you from years of experience and not pithy gun forum rhetoric and bovine excrement.
Echo40
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Contrary to popular belief, that's how most self-defense shootings go. Most thugs are just looking for an easy target, someone who will give in to their demands without putting up a fight, and for good reason, money is no good to a dead man, much less a man who has to spend it all on a trip to the Emergency Room.
The desperate junkies you hear about in headlines who continue attacking after being shot unless thoroughly physically disabled make headlines because such occurrences are extraordinary.
For the average rational human being, the mere sight of a firearm is enough to get them to cease all aggression and flee, the rest will typically surrender after being shot because the sight of their own blood coupled with the searing pain of a hot chunk of lead lodged somewhere inside of their body is enough to make them recognize their own mortality and question whether it is worth it to continue fighting or flee to seek medical attention before they blood out/die.
Furthermore, it's worth noting that in most cases it takes 2 shots on average to down an attacker, regardless of what cartridge the firearm is loaded with.
Not that I'm trying to convince you that you ought to carry a .380 or anything, merely that this story would have most likely ended exactly the same way had the man been hit in the exact same spot with a 9mm Luger or .357 Magnum.
Ribwizzard
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Just too many assumptions about the attacker being made. You can show up with a tool that you hope will do the job, or show up with one you know will do the job.
And there is a bigger difference in ballistics between .38 and .357 than most are trying to imply.
And there is a bigger difference in ballistics between .38 and .357 than most are trying to imply.
Retired Cop
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Oh! Horse-feathers! First, the ballistics of modern .380 ammo is better than the 38 special. Second .380 is a 9 mm round and very lethal at that 9x17. 90 grains of lead traveling at 1,000 FPS is very lethal. Would you stand in the path of one????
Third, the chance of a average citizen getting in a gun fight and lugging around a 1911 all day for that occasion is absurd. The .22 caliber has filled more graves that any other caliber, do some research please.
I have been shot with a 1911 and the round was stopped by my duty belt and my pants belt. I wasn't knocked down or even moved. It felt like getting hit with a pitched baseball in college.
These are facts not speculations!
That's really the only thing I'm trying do with any self defense method I choose to deploy. Make that nice attacker decide he/she has something else they'd rather be doing at the moment . . .
TomkinsSP
Member
Faster does not equal better.
.38 Special is a better round balistically.
A good quality HIT with a .380 (.22 or .32acp) trumps a near miss with a .38 Special (.40 .44 .45).
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