Handling Differences M-67 vs. M-66

[kwselke]

Last year my cousin and I went to a local range to fire our grandfather's 100+ year old factory engraved Colt .45 SAA, for the first time in 50 years. It had just returned from a gunsmith. He brought his two teenage children along and asked if I had an appropriate handgun for them to use. I brought my house gun, a mid 1970's vintage Model 67 Combat Masterpiece. Apparently, his daughter liked my old police trade-in M-67 more than any other gun she had ever fired.

She will be graduating from high school next May and my cousin plans on buying her a Model 66 for a graduation present. Dads always want their daughter's packing .357 Mags over .38 Spec. +P, I suppose.

I've done a bit of lurking on this forum to figure out the differences between the two models in 4" barrel configuration. It appears to me there is about a one ounce difference between the M-67 and the M-66 and that is comprised mostly in the slightly longer, heavier, and shrouded under lug barrel of the M-66. The grips are also different, but my Model 67 has a Hogue Monogrip on it anyway.

Is there a noticeable difference in the handling qualities of the two models?

Also, my only experience with .357 mags is from six inch barrels. Is the muzzle-blast of a full power .357 load from a four inch barrel disturbing for non-magnum initiated?

Thanks in advance

 

[scooter123]

I find the tapered barrel on my 67-1 to allow for a balance that's well "centered" in the hand and that allows for noticeable ease in starting and stopping it in quick transition shooting. However most won't notice a great deal of difference between a model 66 and 67, where it really shows up is when you compare it to something like a 4 inch 686.

Now, what will really be an attention getter is using 357 Magnums in a model 66, IMO the K frames are just too light for Magnums, however I have some wrist issues that limit my tolerance for recoil. As for the muzzle flash out of a 4 inch barrel, not really a problem except in near darkness. What's more concerning from a defensive standpoint is the increase in noise and longer recovery time that comes with the 357 Magnum. In addition the 357 Magnum is a really superb flinch builder, a result of both the increased noise and the increase in recoil. The fastest way to take a new shooter from doing well to pushing shots into the dirt is to hand them a Magnum before they are ready for it.

Most won't spend much time shooting Magnums from a revolver as light as a 4 inch model 66 and as a consequence their recovery time between shots will be miserable. IMO the 357 Magnum is too much of a good thing for defense. It's too loud, too powerful, and too hard to shoot well with in a light handgun. If you can't hit a 1/2 second split time with a 100% hit rate on 5 inches at 25 feet you should step down to a caliber that allows you to do that.

 

[Ashlander]

For the novice .357 Magnum shooter -- the grips are of key importance. Some Hogue monogrips will help a lot -- 4" or 6". Those wood ones can hurt after a few shots.

 

[mbnatt]

Owned both, really could not tell difference pointability or balance. Agree with Ashlander on the grips! Think the guy is wrong forcing daughter to use .357mag.

 

[kwselke]

Whoa... He is not forcing her to use .357! He wants her to have the option of using the more powerful round. I just invited him to look at the thread, so he might chime in in the near future.

 

[roaddog28]

I find the tapered barrel on my 67-1 to allow for a balance that's well "centered" in the hand and that allows for noticeable ease in starting and stopping it in quick transition shooting. However most won't notice a great deal of difference between a model 66 and 67, where it really shows up is when you compare it to something like a 4 inch 686.

Now, what will really be an attention getter is using 357 Magnums in a model 66, IMO the K frames are just too light for Magnums, however I have some wrist issues that limit my tolerance for recoil. As for the muzzle flash out of a 4 inch barrel, not really a problem except in near darkness. What's more concerning from a defensive standpoint is the increase in noise and longer recovery time that comes with the 357 Magnum. In addition the 357 Magnum is a really superb flinch builder, a result of both the increased noise and the increase in recoil. The fastest way to take a new shooter from doing well to pushing shots into the dirt is to hand them a Magnum before they are ready for it.

Most won't spend much time shooting Magnums from a revolver as light as a 4 inch model 66 and as a consequence their recovery time between shots will be miserable. IMO the 357 Magnum is too much of a good thing for defense. It's too loud, too powerful, and too hard to shoot well with in a light handgun. If you can't hit a 1/2 second split time with a 100% hit rate on 5 inches at 25 feet you should step down to a caliber that allows you to do that.

I have too agree with Scooter on this. The K frame magnum can shoot 357 magnums but the shooter is going to know it. Plus for a novice shooter they may start flinching and this is hard to correct.
I do shoot 357 magnums through my K frames but they are the light load CCI blazer 158gr hollow points. This round is like shooting a 38+P and won't hurt the K frame. I don't recommend a full power 357 magnum for self defense. Most shooters are not accurate enough to handle this round.
When the model 19 and 66 came out they were intended to shoot 38 specials for practice and 357 magnums only for "business".
The model 66 handles almost the same as a model 67. Again, like Scooter says most people won't know the difference. I would buy either one depending on the deal.
Good luck,
Howard

 

[old bear]

Is the muzzle-blast of a full power .357 load from a four inch barrel disturbing for non-magnum initiated?

YES it is!!!

 

[kwselke]

Bear,

I've shot lots of full power .44 Magnums and they do not bother me until the revolver's barrel length drops below 6". I call it the "SAY WHAT!" point. I have not shot much .357 Magnum, but figured a 4" barrel might be at that point.

The funny thing is that I bought my M-67 20 years ago because it was cheap and I figured the loss would not be great if I left it out of my safe and I was burglarized. Over the years, I've come to think of it as a great gun.

I thank all of you for your comments.

 

[jmwildenthal]

M-66 vs M-67

I'm the one shopping for my daughter's graduation present.

When I teach NRA Basic Pistol/CHL classes and students express a preference for .38 Special houseguns, I sometimes recommend getting one in .357 Magnum and loading it only with .38 Special. I explain that they can always shoot .38 Special and never shoot .357 Magnum and they will be fine. If they ever decide they want to load .357 Magnum, they can then do so without getting a new gun. On a few occasions I have done the same concerning snubbies vs. semis in .40S&W - when the student was overly concerned about power. I can tell them over and over that placement is more important than foot-pounds, but sometimes that falls on deaf ears. At least with a .357 they can later drop to .38 while they would have fewer options with a bottom feeder.

I don't know if my daughter will ever fire a single .357 Magnum round out of a 66. But I want her to have that choice later if it interests her, without having to trade in a gun she is used to. There is an old saying: "Beware the shooter with one gun. They probably know how to use it."

I believe the 67 she shot had the Hogue overmold grips on it. Whatever they were, I'll be purchasing some for the 66.

 

[PA Reb]

I have shot magnums in pretty much all the available calibers over the years and I do own and shoot a model 66 with a 2 1/2" barrel. At the range, I normally fire .38s through it but also drop in a few .357s just to stay sharp with it. When carried for defense, its always loaded with .357s. I will say however that when firing .357s, it does give you a wake up call and is much more "uncomfortable" than the .44 magnum. Actually, when firing .357s through it, its the only gun that ever left my hand and knuckles hurting after firing!

jmwildenthal ~ I agree completely with your assessment on .38s versus .357s.

 

[imjin138]

I have a few K frame guns I like the option of .357 Magnum but mostly I use .38 Specials. I use a lot of +P stuff for defense. My first gun was a Model 19 4 inch I bought when I was 17, (I had my Dad's permission) and since then I have loved the K Frame.

I have both the 67 and the 66 and to me they are about the same, the last time I qualified with a handgun it was a 4 inch 66 and we used 158 grn SWHP +p+. Firing .357 and you will notice the difference but with practice you can do it well.

I taught my daughter how to shoot with a 22 K frame then moved her up to 38 in my 67, but I haven't had her shoot .357's yet but she may try sometime. She likes my wife's 32 H&R Magnum but my wife is not giving it up.

 

[kwselke]

My main question is about the handling differences between the two revolvers. What I'm seeing is that the slight additional weight of the M-66 has only a minimum impact on handling qualities. JM, I'd take her to a gun show and have her handle one of each and see if she likes both models.

 

[boatbum101]

Both are fine guns & sweet shooters . So much about handguns is subjective . I'd let her pick the one that feels right to her . I agree with the Fathers point of view also . With careful handloading I'm sure he can get her used to magnum ammo in a little time . I very foolishly sold my 67 & kept the 66 . However inside the house I load it with the Buffalo Bore 20A/20 38 special 158 LSWCGC load . When we leave the house I load 'er with 125 JHP 357 mag . The 357 today is a shadow of what it was years ago but I still would not reccomend it for the inexperienced shooter .

 

[Batta]

M-66's are great handling and shooting guns. She can run .38spl if she can't handle a .357 Mag in it. I think for your buddies situation it's a perfect choice. 4" is plenty of barrel as well I find that I personally am more accurate with a 4" barrel

 

[old bear]

Sir unless your daughter MUST have a K frame, why not get her an L frame. I have a 586 4" which is a joy to shoot. As much as I admire and trust my M-19 4", my 586 has replaced it as one of my home defense revolvers.

 

[jmwildenthal]

K vs. L

Sir unless your daughter MUST have a K frame, why not get her an L frame. I have a 586 4" which is a joy to shoot. As much as I admire and trust my M-19 4", my 586 has replaced it as one of my home defense revolvers.

That is something I hadn't thought about much. I used to have a 686 and had been thinking K for overall weight. I should have her try out both.