Hard Cast Alloy Bullets safe for my new JM 625?

[johnny_yuma]

Glad to be aboard on the forum here. Just picked up my first Smith & Wesson Revolver -JM 625 45ACP. Im a 45ACP guy and its my favorite caliber to reload for so I fell in love with the 625.

I have a box of 500 "Better Bullets" Super Hard Cast Alloy Bullets in 200gr semi-wadcutter .452 that I picked up a few years ago for my 1911 that for no particular reason I hardly ever used. Nearly all my reloading is with jacketed bullets.

I realize that Hard Cast Alloy bullets are harder than lead bullets, but I'm still concerned about the rifling in my barrel getting gummed up and lead shavings gumming up my seating die.

Are Hard Cast Alloy bullets safe for my barrel, will they gum up my seating dies with lead deposits?

Point is, Im looking for a cheaper bullet solution than jacketed copper bullets. I have my eye on plated bullets too...

Thanks for your help in advance

 

[Rpg]

Hard cast is virtually all I shoot.

Of course, I have no ECM riffled handguns.

Won't gum up anything and won't lead.

Won't hurt your gun in any way.

 

[johnny_yuma]

I figured so!

Loading up a batch right now

Sometimes you see something someone else said that turns out to be complete BS

 

[growr]

MY 625 JM doesn't do well with cast bullets regardless of hard they are cast (the barrel leads up severely)...so I just stay with 230 FMJ and have a blast!!
I use them in USPSA/IDPA matches.

Randy

PS. Now my 25-2 just doesn't care....it shoots my favorite #68 H&G 200 gr. SWC VERY well and no leading issues....differences in how the barrel is rifled I guess.

 

[fredj338]

Any lead bullet is softer than jacketed & will actually wear less on the bore & forcing cone. Leasing is a product of poor bullet fit to cyl throats & bore. Generrally a 0.452" bullet will work fine, but all guns are diff. If you cant easily push a 0.452" bullet thru the cyl throats of each cyl, then the throats will resize the bullet & you are likely to get leading in the first 1-2" of bbl. hardcast, soft swaged, its all about proper fit.

 

[TomkinsSP]

I don't cast lead bullets but figure I have shot over 100,000 of them downrange. My understanding is even "hard cast" lead is softer (or maybe more pliable is a better description) than a jacketed or plated bullet of equal diameter. Everything I have read states lead bullets create less friction (heat) traveling down the barrel. Loading manuals show slightly lower charges for lead than jacketed of the same weight. Lots of information is available about alloying and casting lead bullets. The consensus seems to be that its the sizing of bullets not their hardness that causes leading in bores. Makes sense to me, bullets are round, not polygons, old fashioned lands just squish the lead in a bit but the polygons have little concave triangles the lead can fill. BTW leading generally is only an issue when you switch back to harder plated or jacketed rounds. People shoot lead through Glocks, they just clean them really well afterward to remove any lead from the bore. Anyway, I shoot lead in .32/.327 .38/.357/9 .30-30/7.62 and so far the only damage done has been to targets.

 

[johnny_yuma]

just finished loading 50 200gr cast alloy semi wadcutters...

I'll see how they do after 30 rounds or so and check the bore and post what I find.

 

[geddylee10002000]

Growr and I shot a action pistol match in Miles City, MT about 2 years ago. We are child hood friends from the same home town. BTW, he beat the pants off me.

He has a 625 JM and I have a 625 JM Performance Center. Differences, cylinder length, under-lug differences, & how they cut the rifling. JM is ECM (Electro Chemical Machining) and the Performance Center is Deep Cut Broached Rifling.

I haven't had a whole lot of leading problems with cast (home brewed or commercial). But they are pretty dirty and a lot of smoke due to the lube. Great for practice. Haven't tried plated or coated yet as for the cost I can get Zero FMJ 230 gr. for the same price. No problems with them. I do have a friend here that gets me a dealer discount.

 

[TjB101]

I've used quite a bit of the Better Bullets, both lead and coated and they are just fine out of my 357 guns. Hopefully you will find, as I did, wonderful accuracy with them.

 

[cowboy4evr]

If you find lead in the barrel , just wrap a piece of " Chore Boy " around a worn out bore brush . Chore Boy is pure copper scouring pad , it will quickly remove the lead and no harm to the barrel . Don't buy any other brand as some are actually steel coated with copper . Chore Boy is usually available at Walmart and Ace Hdwe Stores .

 

[cowboy4evr]

If a barrel is leaded you usually have internal dimension problems . You need to slug the barrel to get the ' groove ' diameter of the barrel . You need to measure the cylinder throats . If the cylinder throats are smaller than the groove diameter of the barrel , the cylinder throats need to reamed larger . Your cast bullet should be at least .001th's larger than the barrel measurement . Proper fit is king !
YOu need to drive a soft slug all the way through the barrel to see if there is a " tight spot " at the junction where the barrel threads onto the frame , or are there machine marks in the barrel or a tight spot where they " roll stamp " all the markings on the side of a barrel . Driving a lead slug all the way down the barrel , you will feel if any of these conditions are present . Shooting cast successfullly requires some effort and patience to get everything correct . To just decide to shoot cast so you go out and buy somebody's cast bullets w/o taking the time to check for the above mentioned conditions is futile . Then if the barrel is leaded you blame the commercial casters bullets , " poor lube , too hard , too soft " etc when the real problem lies withing the revolver itself .

 

[springer99]

Cast bullets will be softer than any jacketed option and will not cause excess barrel damage. If anything, barrel wear will be reduced by using them. Leading is a different issue. In that case, correct bullet diameter is the most important thing to keep in mind.

Bear in mind that at the velocities you'll be seeing with 45ACP, you don't need "hard-cast" anything. If those hard-cast bullets aren't equal to, or better yet about .001 over the groove diameter, they may still lead. I've actually found that softer(about 8-10brn) cast bullets will obturate better to fit barrel diameter even if sizing is a bit off.

 

[Pizza Bob]

The only thing that I can tell you is to go ahead and try them. All the theorizing in the world isn't worth one wit compared to empirical data. Same goes for other people's experiences.

There has been a lot written about the propensity of the ECM rifled barrels to lead-up, vs. broach cut, I think that cowboy4evr's answer addresses that - too many other variables in play to pin any leading solely on the rifling type. To blame ECM seems counter-intuitive as the rifling in those barrels is so smooth that, when it was introduced, forensic ballisticians were concerned that there wouldn't be distinct rifling marks.

I'd suggest you try coated bullets, and to make best use of your revolver's quick loading ability, with moon clips, you use 230 gr RN - the gun practically loads itself. I have five revolvers that use .45 ACP and use Ranch Products moon clips, the Deluxe moon clip tool and a Brownells screwdriver type de-mooner. Or if you want the Rolls Royce of tools - the BMT tool. I use Bayou or Ibejihead coated bullets - no smoke and no leading (in my guns).

Have fun.

BTW, are you from SE PA - the home of "Better Bullets" as Roger is also producing coated bullets he calls his PC line.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

[Neumann]

I use hard cast (Oregon Trails) bullets in my revolvers and pistol-caliber carbines, with little or no leading. A .357 or .44 magnum reaches up to 1800 fps in a 20" barrel, with a normal (revolver) load.

I've heard of them used with polygonal rifling (e.g., Clock) without problems, whereas soft lead bullets are unusable.

 

[StakeOut]

To me hard cast means 16-18 Brinell

Lyman #2 alloy is about 16 Brinell

 

[mikld]

To dispel any old wive's tales and fears go here and look around. Just about everything cast bullet related is discussed here. No BS, just real like experiences. Cast Boolits

I use cast (not "hard cast" and "harder is better" is another old wive's tale) bullets, running from 10 BHN to mebbe 16 BHN, in most of my guns and all my handguns and found, in every gun, that proper fit, bullet to gun fit, is essential for clean, leading free, accurate ammo.

 

[fredj338]

I shoot range scrap cast for the most part, up to 1200fps or so. Conventional lubes work fine, but as noted dirty the gun up pretty quickly.
I was slow to the coated bullet wave but now it's all I shoot in my handguns right now. Less crud & smoke, same great accuracy & doing it yourself, very cheap shooting, any caliber handgun. Powder Coatings will go 2000fps w/o accuracy loss. Hi-Tek works well too but vel falls off after 1400fps or so.

 

[johnny_yuma]

RESULTS. Here are my results after shooting over 200 hard cast alloy bullets through my JM625 over two days. 100 rounds per day and thurough cleaning after each day:

Hoppes #9 (you guessed it!) with a brass bore scrubber cleaned anything and everything from the bore. First I soaked the bore with Hoppes # 9 -not "Rem Oil" nor "Break Free CLP".... nor anything else. Just Hoppes #9. Left it soak. Scrubbed the **** out of it with the bore scrubber. Soaked it again...repeat.

What I did notice inspecting the barrel from both ends with a bore light was after the 3rd scrubbing was that while the barrel and rifling itself were virgin clean, the chamber end where there the bore is smooth for a fraction of an inch before the rifling starts -that spot there, directly where the bore meets the cylinder chambers, under the bore light it had what appeared to be "tiny little pebbles" LEAD! This was just a function of driving the bore scrubber from the muzzle. So I managed to scrub from the chamber end with the bore scrubber attachment, leaving it to sit in the chamber end of the bore after pouring a few drops of Hoppes # 9 then directly using my fingers to use the brass scrubber attachment to reach around inside the end of the bore it to hit those hard to reach places and after about 10 minutes there wasn't a speck of lead anywhere.

So. Cleaning after shooting Lead or Hard Cast Lead Alloy is a pain in the ***. But in my experience, my JM625 shoots lead beautifully and its just a matter of developing a good cleaning procedure.

Next, I am going to use a .50 Caliber brass scrubber through the muzzle, and weld a .45 scrubber to an Allen tool to easier scrub into the Chamber end of the bore and get those spots where I cant apply pressure from a scrubber through the muzzle.

 

[AzShooter]

Get some coated bullets from Bayou Bullets. They smoke less and leave no lead in the barrel. There are a lot of makers of coated bullets these days. They cost about the same as lead but are a lot cheaper than jacketed.

I was pushing 9mm coated through my 929 and had no need to run a brush through the gun after 1000 rounds. No leading is nice. Also the cylinders stayed clean and didn't need to be scrubed as often.

 

[bananaman]

My 625JM tends to lead badly. I don't want to have to load special to 1 gun. (call me lazy if you want) So, I load plated, or jacketed bullets. Have loaded coated in 9mm, but no 45's as of yet. Rifling in JM is prone to leading. Still love shooting it though! Bob