Has the quality of the PPK and PPK/S improved?
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lhump1961
US Veteran
You'll have to enlighten me as to what quality control issues you're referring to. I have an early one and am quite happy with it. There was a recall but many fine firearms from all manufacturers have had recalls for one reason or another and that doesn't speak to the overall quality of the firearm.
There's lots of stuff reported on the net by folks but I've never put as much stock in someone else's opinion as I put on my own experiences. I own two and they've been fine...but that's just my opinion!
There's lots of stuff reported on the net by folks but I've never put as much stock in someone else's opinion as I put on my own experiences. I own two and they've been fine...but that's just my opinion!
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I agree. I am not sure to what quality control issues the OP is referring. There was a recall, but all of the guns sent in were fixed. The Walther people licensed production to S&W and sold the S&W version to its European customers, so I don't think Walther had any issue with QC on the S&W-produced Walthers.
For that matter, the Gadsden, Alabama produced Interarms pistols were very good also, and yet you still read of people who think those had problems. As a matter of fact, of all of the things Sam Cummings did (and he did quite a bit), perhaps the best thing he ever did was to ink the deal with Walther to make real PPK and TPH pistols in the US. Were it not for Mr. Cummings, we would be stuck with the PPK/S. I guess some people like those, but no one in my circle of shooting friends.
When the West Germans replaced their PPs in the mid-70s (the pistol trials that resulted in the P5, P6 and P7 pistols, from Walther, SIG-Sauer and HK, respectively), the typical German or French produced (remember they were also made by Manurhin) pistols were routinely unable to go through one box of 50 rounds without a malfunction.
The purists over at the Walther forum seem to think that any PPK not produced at Zella-Mehlis or at least at Ulm-Do (which means, "Ulm, on the Donau (Danube) River") and which were not personally tested by a high party official are simply not up to the grand name of the Walther house. However, I think Walther does not license junk, and the Interarms and S&W pistols are very nice. Frankly, it is nice that we can buy them at all, since the PPK does not "make points" and cannot be imported under the 1968 Gun Control Act. I feel so much safer, don't you?
There is really nothing wrong with S&W-produced Walther PPK and PPK/S pistols, apart from the fact that there are lighter pistols of the same size in 9mm, a more effective caliber.
It is really irrelevant, as production of the PPK and PPK/S is moving to the Walther Arms and Umarex facilities in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Thus, the next we will see is the internet lighting up with how great the Gadsden and Springfield PPK pistols are compared to the "junk" they are turning out in Arkansas. One thing is for sure, if someone can run a product down, they will do so louder and longer on the internet than was ever possible in the past.
By the way, I am sure the Fort Smith PPK pistols will be just fine.
For that matter, the Gadsden, Alabama produced Interarms pistols were very good also, and yet you still read of people who think those had problems. As a matter of fact, of all of the things Sam Cummings did (and he did quite a bit), perhaps the best thing he ever did was to ink the deal with Walther to make real PPK and TPH pistols in the US. Were it not for Mr. Cummings, we would be stuck with the PPK/S. I guess some people like those, but no one in my circle of shooting friends.
When the West Germans replaced their PPs in the mid-70s (the pistol trials that resulted in the P5, P6 and P7 pistols, from Walther, SIG-Sauer and HK, respectively), the typical German or French produced (remember they were also made by Manurhin) pistols were routinely unable to go through one box of 50 rounds without a malfunction.
The purists over at the Walther forum seem to think that any PPK not produced at Zella-Mehlis or at least at Ulm-Do (which means, "Ulm, on the Donau (Danube) River") and which were not personally tested by a high party official are simply not up to the grand name of the Walther house. However, I think Walther does not license junk, and the Interarms and S&W pistols are very nice. Frankly, it is nice that we can buy them at all, since the PPK does not "make points" and cannot be imported under the 1968 Gun Control Act. I feel so much safer, don't you?
There is really nothing wrong with S&W-produced Walther PPK and PPK/S pistols, apart from the fact that there are lighter pistols of the same size in 9mm, a more effective caliber.
It is really irrelevant, as production of the PPK and PPK/S is moving to the Walther Arms and Umarex facilities in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Thus, the next we will see is the internet lighting up with how great the Gadsden and Springfield PPK pistols are compared to the "junk" they are turning out in Arkansas. One thing is for sure, if someone can run a product down, they will do so louder and longer on the internet than was ever possible in the past.
By the way, I am sure the Fort Smith PPK pistols will be just fine.
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Harkrader
Member
Yes. I'll take my stainless S&W Walther PPK with the beaver tail over any vintage model. I have some '70s PPKs and PPs to compare, any time.
I can't speak to the PPK, but surely can to the PPK/S. Bought one about 5 years ago, new. Jam o matic! Literally would not feed a full magazine without a stovepipe and this went on for at least a box, maybe 2, of ammo. Even borrowed another few types of ammo from a shooting buddy too, so it wasn't ammo related. I went to 3 other LGS's to see what they had for small 380's (I was considering Beretta Cheetah's and Sig 232's), and mentioned offhand that I had an issue with mine. To a MAN they all said it will take about 300 rounds to break in and run right. Not for me, don't have that kind of patience and not about to waste that much money on ammo. Went back to the store I bought it at, one of the largest in New England. They gave me my money back and I bought a used stainless Sig 232 for $100 more from them. Gun has NEVER had a hiccup, with about 800 rounds through it (I know, I save my brass).
Maybe the issue is fixed now, but I wasn't about to risk my life on a gun that would jam and wasn't right when it left the factory.
My 2 cents and Thank God for a good shop that made it all right.
PS--the PPKS also drew blood from hammer bite too, which I also found they are somewhat known for, so I wasn't sorry to see it go even if it didn't jam. That's the design of the gun and my hand size and not Smith's fault, but it is what it is.
Maybe the issue is fixed now, but I wasn't about to risk my life on a gun that would jam and wasn't right when it left the factory.
My 2 cents and Thank God for a good shop that made it all right.
PS--the PPKS also drew blood from hammer bite too, which I also found they are somewhat known for, so I wasn't sorry to see it go even if it didn't jam. That's the design of the gun and my hand size and not Smith's fault, but it is what it is.
Harkrader
Member
7cstevan, I won't argue with your choice of the Sig 232. I think it is a fine gun. I shoot it well and it's like any Sig: just keeps on keeping on. It is heavy, though.
Since you're happy, I won't suggest going back to the PPK/S. Is it possible you were using hot loads? My 1970 PPK/S and PP, after working flawlessly for years with commercial ammo, jammed in latter years with hotter loads, particularly with light bullets. I'll concede it may be time to change the springs.
For years I had a PPK, not "S," and it worked fine with anything.
I've had four of the S&W/Walther PPKs, one factory engraved with gold inlay and all have fired hundreds of rounds without a hiccup. I have a female friend who is a lawyer, and she loves the PPK no "S" she has, and fires it with either hand, no problem. She has also fired all of mine numerous times with no issues.
I even had a PPK/S seize up due to corrosion, once. We used a hammer to tap off the safety. Pulled the trigger, emptied the magazine with no problems.
I'm wondering if the one you bought had some problem worth sending it back to S&W for a look.
Some years back my employer found what I think is a fine alternative to the Walthers, the Bursa Thunder. WAY cheaper, significantly lighter, reliable as a stone, carries the same amount of ammo and you can get a really cool drum magazine for them. I have one and it works fine. I choose it over the Walthers.
Since you're happy, I won't suggest going back to the PPK/S. Is it possible you were using hot loads? My 1970 PPK/S and PP, after working flawlessly for years with commercial ammo, jammed in latter years with hotter loads, particularly with light bullets. I'll concede it may be time to change the springs.
For years I had a PPK, not "S," and it worked fine with anything.
I've had four of the S&W/Walther PPKs, one factory engraved with gold inlay and all have fired hundreds of rounds without a hiccup. I have a female friend who is a lawyer, and she loves the PPK no "S" she has, and fires it with either hand, no problem. She has also fired all of mine numerous times with no issues.
I even had a PPK/S seize up due to corrosion, once. We used a hammer to tap off the safety. Pulled the trigger, emptied the magazine with no problems.
I'm wondering if the one you bought had some problem worth sending it back to S&W for a look.
Some years back my employer found what I think is a fine alternative to the Walthers, the Bursa Thunder. WAY cheaper, significantly lighter, reliable as a stone, carries the same amount of ammo and you can get a really cool drum magazine for them. I have one and it works fine. I choose it over the Walthers.
The issues I've read mostly involved FTF and FTE. I really like the design and look of the gun as well as how it fires (I just got an interarms version of the PPK/S as my CCW.) I've heard so many good things about the Thunder .380 that is actually on my to get list.
I did contemplate sending it back to Smith for the jam problem, but that still would have left me with the hammer bite issue. I did try about 4 types of ammo as I recall, regular factory stuff, not HS and not reloads--still jammed each and every mag. The Beretta's were too bulky (but gorgeous in nickel!) and also too hard to cock--stiff in other words, at least it seemed to me.
Sticking with the Sig.
Regards,
Steve
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Zebra War Wagon
Member
My stainless S&W PPK/S has been nothing but trouble; FTF and FTE. I tried probably 8 or 9 different brands of ammo to see if it was ammo sensitive. Finally sent it back to S&W, it was returned with no explanation except "adjustment made". Still does not function right, so it is now a paperweight. It's very disappointing that it does not work right and I should just keep sending it back until it's right. Maybe I just have a lemon?
hooksnatcher
Member
My PPK/S is not S&W made, it is a stainless steel one manufactured by Ranger (Gadsden, AL) for Interarms. However, it has always been 100% reliable for me and it is my "light CCW".
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johnnyloco
Member
Yes, their new design is called the Bersa Thunder 380.
