Have you ever had to draw your weapon for self defense?

[rednichols]

So let me see if I've got this straight....

You made a career out of selling gun leather - including concealed carry holsters - when you lived in the USA.

And now that you live in the gun-free utopia down under, you think that carrying a concealed firearm is pointless, because the laws of Australia make it a crime for criminals to carry a firearm?

And you REALLY believe that criminals in Australia are going to SELECTIVELY obey the laws that prohibit them from possessing a gun?

Sorry, but to me that seems incredibly naive.

Wanna' buy a bridge? I have a couple for sale....

For your edification, Australia has had a single mass shooting called Port Arthur in 1996, and zero since. I define these as a single shooter killing a gathering of unrelated persons without any other motive than murder; he used a pair of semi-auto rifles. Contrast that with your record over there with mass shootings since Columbine, which was inspired by the video game Doom.

Why? Firearms are permitted but only long guns in any volume; owning a pistol is controlled by intricate laws. A gun shop won't even allow your presence without a gun license. NO assault rifles, and these are used in virtually ALL mass shootings in USA including the Trump assassin (on the evidence he was shooting at the mass of attendees as well as the President).

So, no, I'm not being naive. You? My point originally was only that the tales in this thread, which reflect carriers' experience over many decades not the last 30 days, doesn't show compelling evidence that you all m/b armed at all times (as in the Middle East) or be killed. Members of this forum, on the evidence, carry as a hobby, not as a necessity.

Also consider that Australia's ethnic makeup is more like England's than it is America's. We've no equivalent of East St. Louis here. Don't get me wrong, I love my birth country and I vote in California as an expat, even though I am not legally compelled to; and I vote here in Australia although I AM required to. So I vote TWICE to your once

 

[Autonomous]

Thread drift is one thing but flat out hi-jacking someone else's thread is rude.

 

[ACORN]

3 times sort of.
Once my wife woke me in the middle of the night saying she heard someone downstairs.
I grabbed my 12ga. 870, went to the top of the stairs and yelled “Who’s down there?” No answer. I hollered again and shucked a shell into to chamber. Still no answer.
I went downstairs the shotgun at high ready and cleared the first floor and then the basement and integral garage.
I went back up to the 1st floor and found the back door unlocked and ajar.
Second time I was watching the Pirates playing on the west cost @ around 11:00-11:30.
I thought I heard a faint knock on the storm door.
I got up with my 2-1/2” 686 in hand.
I looked out the window on the door and asked who’s there.
Suddenly a stranger popped up asking for someone I never heard of.
He said he was looking for his buddies house but made a mistake.
He beat feet of my porch and drove off.
The third time I was still living at home.
My sisters bedroom was on the second floor.
About 2 AM I woke hearing a noise outside. Shortly afterward my sister came down and said there was someone in her room.
Dad and I went and checked the room but found nothing.
Everyone went back to bed.
Minutes later my sister came back down, again saying there someone in her room, and she can hear them walking around.
Dad and I checked her room again but found nothing again.
We went outside but there was nothing there.
Their house and garage are separated by a long sidewalk.
We went back to bed.
Third time my sister comes back with the same story.
Dad went to the Sun porch at the rear of the house where he had a clear view up the walk.
There he saw a boy/man stand on the garage roof with his hand on the house gutter.
Dad called out, “He’s on the roof. Call the police.”
I jumped out of bed in my boxers. Grabbed my Model 60 and ran out the front door followed by Dad.
I didn’t spot the guy but Dad did and pointed him out about 50 yds up the street.
I took off after him, in my shorts and no shoes.
The guy ran between some houses and I lost him.
I returned to the house, got my truck and circled around the neighborhood numerous times, but found nothing.
Years later my sister found out the guy was an acquaintance of hers.
She asked him what the heck he was going to do, and he almost got shot. He replied he was drinking and didn’t know.
I think I do, though.
He said his cousin lived a block or so away, he saw her lights on so he holed up there, saying someone was chasing him.
He told my sister his cousin an him watched me drive by multiple times.
Sorry for the long post.

 

[BC38]

For your edification, Australia has had a single mass shooting called Port Arthur in 1996, and zero since. I define these as a single shooter killing a gathering of unrelated persons without any other motive than murder; he used a pair of semi-auto rifles. Contrast that with your record over there with mass shootings since Columbine, which was inspired by the video game Doom.

Funny how the same info can be presented so differently - just by narrowing or broadening your definition.
If our anti-gun advocates used your definition the number of "mass shootings" here would be WAY lower too. You exclude any familial shootings. If you include those the the AU results are much higher and more recent. Our anti-gun crowd doesn't exclude familial shootings and defines a mass shooting as 3 or more killed OR injured.

There are WAY too many other differences between US and AU to make any really valid comparison. The US has over 13x the population of AU. AU has a much more homogeneous population. The multiple and varied racial tensions we have in the US aren't a factor there. AU basically gathered up all those nasty old handguns several years ago and although they allow owning SOME long guns, they restrict ownership of them strenuously and uniformly.

Yet as was pointed out in an earlier post, there are still a number of criminals committing murder in AU with handguns. Not that a lack of handguns would prevent people here - or in AU, or anywhere else - from committing murder. England is proof of that. They've even outlawed pocket knives and murders are still a daily occurrence.

Why? Firearms are permitted but only long guns in any volume; owning a pistol is controlled by intricate laws. A gun shop won't even allow your presence without a gun license. NO assault rifles, and these are used in virtually ALL mass shootings in USA including the Trump assassin (on the evidence he was shooting at the mass of attendees as well as the President).

Assault rifles? Oh, you mean semi-auto rifles? Aren't those allowed in AU? Are you only allowed single-shot, bolt-action, pump-action, and lever-action rifles? Because as we all know the only functional difference between and AR-15 "assault rifle" and grandpa's semi-auto hunting rifle is their appearance - and that grandpa's hunting rifle is far more likely to actually kill, rather than wound. The .223/5.56 round is so ineffective as a killing tool that many states won't allow hunting something as small as a white-tail deer with it.

So, no, I'm not being naive. You? My point originally was only that the tales in this thread, which reflect carriers' experience over many decades not the last 30 days, doesn't show compelling evidence that you all m/b armed at all times (as in the Middle East) or be killed. Members of this forum, on the evidence, carry as a hobby, not as a necessity.

Yup, and I haven't needed a spare tire in 30 years or a fire extinguisher EVER. But I have both - just in case.

Also consider that Australia's ethnic makeup is more like England's than it is America's. We've no equivalent of East St. Louis here. Don't get me wrong, I love my birth country and I vote in California as an expat, even though I am not legally compelled to; and I vote here in Australia although I AM required to. So I vote TWICE to your once

Yup, I already agreed with the point about population differences.

Am I to understand that you have dual-citizenship and you're still voting in US elections? That doesn't seem right to me. If you don't live here, and are a citizen of AU, why should you care - or have any say - in US elections? Unless you live part time here. Then that would make more sense.

 

[Mark Pilcher]

Subjects, not citizens.

 

[Muss Muggins]

For your edification, Australia has had a single mass shooting called Port Arthur in 1996, and zero since. I define these as a single shooter killing a gathering of unrelated persons without any other motive than murder; he used a pair of semi-auto rifles. . .

You are required at this point to admit that Australia has had multiple mass stabbings thereafter (defined as a single stabber killing a gathering of unrelated persons without any other motive than murder), as recently as this year where six people were killed and multiple others injured, wherein the populace was completely unable to defend themselves . . .

 

[rednichols]

Funny how the same info can be presented so differently - just by narrowing or broadening your definition.
If our anti-gun advocates used your definition the number of "mass shootings" here would be WAY lower too. You exclude any familial shootings. If you include those the the AU results are much higher and more recent. Our anti-gun crowd doesn't exclude familial shootings and defines a mass shooting as 3 or more killed OR injured.

There are WAY too many other differences between US and AU to make any really valid comparison. The US has over 13x the population of AU. AU has a much more homogeneous population. The multiple and varied racial tensions we have in the US aren't a factor there. AU basically gathered up all those nasty old handguns several years ago and although they allow owning SOME long guns, they restrict ownership of them strenuously and uniformly.

Yet as was pointed out in an earlier post, there are still a number of criminals committing murder in AU with handguns. Not that a lack of handguns would prevent people here - or in AU, or anywhere else - from committing murder. England is proof of that. They've even outlawed pocket knives and murders are still a daily occurrence.



Assault rifles? Oh, you mean semi-auto rifles? Aren't those allowed in AU? Are you only allowed single-shot, bolt-action, pump-action, and lever-action rifles? Because as we all know the only functional difference between and AR-15 "assault rifle" and grandpa's semi-auto hunting rifle is their appearance - and that grandpa's hunting rifle is far more likely to actually kill, rather than wound. The .223/5.56 round is so ineffective as a killing tool that many states won't allow hunting something as small as a white-tail deer with it.



Yup, and I haven't needed a spare tire in 30 years or a fire extinguisher EVER. But I have both - just in case.



Yup, I already agreed with the point about population differences.

Am I to understand that you have dual-citizenship and you're still voting in US elections? That doesn't seem right to me. If you don't live here, and are a citizen of AU, why should you care - or have any say - in US elections? Unless you live part time here. Then that would make more sense.

Semi automatic rifles or shotguns not permitted here. The New Zealand massacre was an Australian who wanted to replicate his first-person massacre video game (his video of it was disguised online as a video game) but no such rifles here, so he went to New Zealand and bought his rifle there, killed Kiwis.

It DOES seem like a thread hijack; except that it's about personal defense with pistols because you all either think you need to, or DO need to. I'm saying you all don't really need to, you're playing out a fantasy. And that your choice of gunleather brand won't save your life; no real gunmen here. And I show my empathy for you all: here, where such tom foolery is not permitted, we don't have your mass shootings. Which at least one polly has suggested are inevitable in America. Sad you chaps let it get out of hand: none of that was going on when I lived there until 2000.

 

[olympicmotors]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-r-5kB1Sz0[/ame]

 

[rednichols]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-r-5kB1Sz0

There's always one of you. The last one I received on this forum was an image of an Aboriginal man on a didgeridoo. Years ago. Seems from both posts that bigotry persists over there, eh?

Ya'll are defending cosplay nor personal protection. It's indefensible with real pistols. PS I linked this thread to my blog after my first post, more readers are learning about this particular 'bubble' y'all are living in, than usual. This image I keep in my 'safety' subfolder (I have tens of thousands of images that I rely on to illustrate my posts there and here).

 

[Autonomous]

You've become a tedious boor, Rewd ... er, Red.

 

[BC38]

Semi automatic rifles or shotguns not permitted here. The New Zealand massacre was an Australian who wanted to replicate his first-person massacre video game (his video of it was disguised online as a video game) but no such rifles here, so he went to New Zealand and bought his rifle there, killed Kiwis.

It DOES seem like a thread hijack; except that it's about personal defense with pistols because you all either think you need to, or DO need to. I'm saying you all don't really need to, you're playing out a fantasy. And that your choice of gunleather brand won't save your life; no real gunmen here. And I show my empathy for you all: here, where such tom foolery is not permitted, we don't have your mass shootings. Which at least one polly has suggested are inevitable in America. Sad you chaps let it get out of hand: none of that was going on when I lived there until 2000.

Back to your original post/premise that Americans have no need to carry a gun....

Your "poll" results were that ~30 of 144 had drawn a gun for the purpose self-defense.

That is over 20% of respondents.

FBI statistics say that Americans use a firearm for self-defense somewhere between 350,000 and 500,000 times a year (the vast majority without any shots fired).

That is between 1,000 and 1,375 a DAY...

I'd say those numbers justify the desire to be armed for self defense.

BUT, in your mind we are only carrying a gun as a form of "cosplay" - none of us can justify it on a rational basis? Interesting perspective. Especially for someone who made a living ENABLING people to carry a gun.

As much as we may envy the low rate of crimes involving firearms in your gun-free utopia, America ain't Australia.
We aren't so hot on the idea of giving up our freedoms. Even though freedoms come with inherent risks - and sometimes even unpleasant consequences.

 

[Autonomous]

Don't feed the troll.

 

[Onomea]

... you all either think you need to, or DO need to. I'm saying you all don't really need to, you're playing out a fantasy....

Hmm.... I don't think this describes me.

I like handguns, and have for many years. When I lived in Japan I could not own them, but I spent a lot of time reading about them, researching them, buying models of interest and picking them up from FFLs when I returned to the US, Hawaii, on my annual vacations. I shot them some in Hawaii, took some training, and stored them either in rental storage or at homes that I owned.

It was not possible to legally carry in Hawaii in the years I was there, but when I moved to Oregon I started, and continue, to carry. Here I belong to a gun club with various ranges and enjoying getting professional training as well as practicing on my own.

I think the odds of my needing to defend myself with a handgun are slight — kinda like the house fire, home insurance analogy — but I do walk in areas, both urban and rural, where violent crime occurs, and I like having a handgun with me and knowing how to use it.

Are my reasons for carrying a handgun rational? They are for me. Some guys like wearing and collecting $10K watches. Is that rational? It is, for them, if not for me.

And I don't think my experience, or my practice, is a fantasy. It is my experience and practice.

Do I need to carry a handgun? I haven't needed to carry a handgun, so far, but I like doing so. Maybe in the same way that some guys like wearing nice watches. But I also like knowing that if need be, despite, somehow, having become an old man, I can defend myself.

I have a lot of affection for Japan where I was an expat for many years. It's a wonderful country in many ways. Very safe. Virtually no guns. Their country, their rules. I've only been to Australia, Melbourne, once, and enjoyed it, and I have enjoyed meeting the Australians I have met. Among all the non-Americans I have met, they seem the most like us in their informality and conviction that every one is everyone else's equal.

Their country, their rules. Our country, our rules.

 

[AJ]

Don't feed the troll.

Thought about mentioning that, but was trying to be "nice".

 

[Autonomous]

Nice? Hijacking a thread, and those that blithely help him hijack the thread aren't.

 

[BC38]

Nice? Hijacking a thread, and those that blithely help him hijack the thread aren't.

LOL, threads branch off into semi-related (or even totally unrelated) side-topics all the time around here.

One man's "hijack" is another man's interesting discussion.

Based on how frequently it happens (more often than not) it would seem that there are more of the latter opinion than the former - at least on some of the subforums.

There is no rule against it. I haven't even seen where the mods really discourage it, as long as it is kept civil. A lot of us like the free-form discussion format. If it bothers you to the point that you can't remain civil, then maybe some of these subforums aren't to your liking.

That's OK, the irritation is easy for you to avoid if you so choose.

 

[rockquarry]

With no reference to this thread, some pretty worthless threads have become much better after they were "hijacked". You see it frequently here.

 

[Autonomous]

How many of you guys have had to pull your weapon for self defense? .

I have.
As in most similar cases they saw the weapon and left. I did not report it as it was against company policy to carry.

 

[olympicmotors]

"60 Minutes" Goes to Dan Bongino's Home Just to Get REKT | This clip is PRICELESS. | By Dan Bongino