Heavy Loads for the Shield 40

[Pilot172P]

Just curious what others have come up with for a good heavy self defense load in the Shield 40. I tested the factory 155gr Gold Dot and averaged 1070fps, 394ft-lbs. I did some extensive testing with Longshot and Power Pistol to try to get 1200fps out of the Shield. 1200fps is what that bullet is designed for, and velocity out of a 4" barrel is specified at 1200fps for factory GD ammo. Longshot can do it easily, but it does have a lot more noticeable recoil over the factory loads. Here are my findings for the 155gr GDHP:

8.3gr Longshot: 1119fps, 417ft-lbs
8.6gr Longshot: 1170fps, 471ft-lbs
8.7gr Longshot: 1204fps, 499ft-lbs
8.8gr Longshot: 1231fps, 522ft-lbs
9.2gr Longshot: 1242fps, 531ft-lbs
9.5gr Longshot: 1270fps, 555ft-lbs (Max load, over pressure signs, case bulge)
8.4gr Power Pistol: 1135fps, 443ft-lbs
8.9gr Power Pistol: 1202fps, 497ft-lbs (Max load, cases ok)

 

[fredj338]

IMO, not gaining anything pushing the little shield that hard. 1150fps, 1200fps, isn't gonna matter much. Test the bullets yourself in some wetpack. Compare your split times for two rounds in the A zone of a USPSA/IDPA target. I think you'll see a slightly better times with no loss in bullet perf.

 

[Pilot172P]

IMO, not gaining anything pushing the little shield that hard. 1150fps, 1200fps, isn't gonna matter much. Test the bullets yourself in some wetpack. Compare your split times for two rounds in the A zone of a USPSA/IDPA target. I think you'll see a slightly better times with no loss in bullet perf.

That was my thoughts too until I saw a gel test done with denim, with the Shield and factory 155gr gold dot. The bullet failed to expand well at 1065fps. My own basic water jug test shows good expansion but not quite full normal expansion with factory gold dot. The other issue I have is I can shoot +P+ ammo out of my 9mm 3" Kahr and get just over 1200fps (400ft-lbs). That's more energy than the Shield 40 with factory gold dot and with less recoil. The reason I went with 40 on the Shield was to get a little more power. I know power isn't everything and bullet placement is first, but unfortunately I'm an engineer and I want a little more energy. I'm starting to realize it's hard to beat the 9mm (less recoil, good energy with +P, similar bullet performance to a 40/45, and more capacity).

My double tap times and accuracy are good with factory ammo. Very happy with the Shield 40. I haven't practiced yet with the 1150 to 1200fps loads, but I'm sure my times will be slower. Recoil doesn't feel much different between 1150 and 1200, but the factory loads are noticeably less recoil. I'll have to practice and see how I do. I'll probably stick with 1150 or so. Don't want to push that Shield too hard.

 

[Skeet 028]

. I know power isn't everything and bullet placement is first, but unfortunately I'm an engineer and I want a little more energy. I'm starting to realize it's hard to beat the 9mm (less recoil, good energy with +P, similar bullet performance to a 40/45, and more capacity)..

Ah yes..the engineer part is a clue. I assume this is for concealed carry use as opposed to a house gun. Seriously as stated by FredJ338. It won't make a hill of beans difference on the velocity. In fact the 8.7 Longshot is as far as I would go. 500 FPE, at the muzzle of course, is probably all you will need. Don't be anal and try to over engineer the whole idea. Learn to shoot the little gun well and you'll have all you need for self protection. And remember..the best house gun is still a good shotgun.,,,loaded with 7 1/2s.
BTW I still carry a 45 in a nice little Para Ordnance Light DA 6 shooter semi.. It shoots angle of BG at 15 ft.

 

[Pilot172P]

Thanks Skeet. Yes it's for concealed carry only. 500FPE was my goal, so will stay with 8.7gr at the most. May even go a little lower. I'd be happy with 450FPE even. Will have to see how it shoots and what's most accurate.

 

[fredj338]

Recoil is kind of a personal thing, but try 165gr or 180gr loads. Generally, the lighter bullets running faster feel snappier. Also the heavier bullets tend to be designed for less vel & still expand well. 50ft# of energy either way, means nothing on the target.

 

[rwsmith]

You are shooting a hot .40

You are shooting a hot .40 out of a compact pistol that was designed for 9mm. To get the velocity you want the recoil is going to be a little stiff. I would only shoot those for familiarity with an actual SD situation and spend my 'fun time' shooting lesser target loads'. For an outside defense gun, I'd take a little pain in recoil as long as I could control it for repeat shots.

 

[rwsmith]

I have found recently.....

Recoil is kind of a personal thing, but try 165gr or 180gr loads. Generally, the lighter bullets running faster feel snappier. Also the heavier bullets tend to be designed for less vel & still expand well. 50ft# of energy either way, means nothing on the target.

I have found recently that the above is true. A heavier bullet and slower powder combination gives more of a 'push' than a 'kick' for recoil.

And yeah, 'energy' doesn't seem to be a reliable indicator of terminal effects. Placement and penetration are more important than anything. Expansion is a helpful factor. The ability to get off follow up shots is high on the list as no pistol is an absolute one shot stopper.

 

[Otreb]

It makes no sense to push it in a small .40 IMO. Too often they are already near the threshold mechanically just to accomodate the larger round. There's plenty of bullet designs that will do fine at ~ 1000fps vs trying to milk extra (overrated) fpe or fps.

 

[AZ_M&P]

Just curious what others have come up with for a good heavy self defense load in the Shield 40.

You may want to reconsider handloading personal defense rounds. I took a "legal" course awhile back, and the criminal defense attorneys leading the class were unanimous that hand loaded PD ammo is a recipe for at least a lawsuit and a good chance of jail time.

According to them, you would have a very difficult time proving you didn't create a round intended to cause more physical injury/greater propensity for death than a factory round.

With all of the other variables we'd have to deal with in the event we're ever forced to use a weapon to stop an attack, seems to me it makes sense to play it safe and stick with factory PD rounds.

Something to consider...

 

[Shooter Magaven]

You may want to reconsider handloading personal defense rounds. I took a "legal" course awhile back, and the criminal defense attorneys leading the class were unanimous that hand loaded PD ammo is a recipe for at least a lawsuit and a good chance of jail time.

According to them, you would have a very difficult time proving you didn't create a round intended to cause more physical injury/greater propensity for death than a factory round.

With all of the other variables we'd have to deal with in the event we're ever forced to use a weapon to stop an attack, seems to me it makes sense to play it safe and stick with factory PD rounds.

Something to consider...

I have heard this before. This may be the case in this day and age for concealed carry out and about (And I assume that is what you (they) were refering to). And all the poor criminals that get shot by someone defending themselves from acts of violence will have all the rights, or, by God, the Lib-tards will have a hissy....But if its a home defense situation, I could easily argue "that's the bullets I had lying on my reloading bench, so that's what I used when your client entered my house/property"

Sorry OP, im off topic

 

[Vortec MAX]

According to them, you would have a very difficult time proving you didn't create a round intended to cause more physical injury/greater propensity for death than a factory round.

I would agree with this. I only use rounds that law enforcement agencies use because of these reasons. I personally like the Federal HST rounds. I used to be a Hydra-Shok fanboy, but the new HST is proving to be a very good round.

Now in a TEOTWAWKI situation, all bets are off. I do develop hand loads for self-defense, but will only use those if I run out of factory stuff.

Mike

 

[Pilot172P]

I have found recently that the above is true. A heavier bullet and slower powder combination gives more of a 'push' than a 'kick' for recoil.

And yeah, 'energy' doesn't seem to be a reliable indicator of terminal effects. Placement and penetration are more important than anything. Expansion is a helpful factor. The ability to get off follow up shots is high on the list as no pistol is an absolute one shot stopper.

Yeah, what started me looking for a little more velocity was the gel test I saw where the gold dot failed to expand all the way. The 3.1" Shield barrel loses 130fps or so from the 4" barrel. I just wanted to get the velocity closer to what the bullet was optimally designed for (1200fps). I agree that follow up shots are high on the list though. I also did a little testing of the 165gr and it did seem a little milder to shoot.

 

[rwsmith]

Heck with that.

You may want to reconsider handloading personal defense rounds. I took a "legal" course awhile back, and the criminal defense attorneys leading the class were unanimous that hand loaded PD ammo is a recipe for at least a lawsuit and a good chance of jail time.

No offense but I live in SC and could give a rat's butt. And if somebody wants to sue me I can explain that I could have shot them with a full .357 mag load instead of one of my glorified .38 special +P+ rounds in .357 cases and tell them to compare that to a factory .357 Cor-bon or Buffalo Bore. And I'll bet I can even get somebody else to help pay for my defense. If we listen to all the scare talk we are sunk.

 

[papajohn428]

All this talk about foot-pounds of energy and such just makes me laugh when you're talking about self-defense loads. The only thing I care about is how fast I can put loads in the Super-Owie-Zone of a bad guy when NOTHING is holding still. You're moving, the bad guy is moving, there is intermittent cover between you and him, and unless you heard him coming and set up an ambush, this is ALL moot. The gun that fits your hand best and points naturally is the one you want, regardless of caliber.

If I have to shoot someone (Gawd Fuhbid) I hope I'm behind cover, but damned few shootouts happen as planned. Shooting from cover would be nice, but rarely happens......you hear a noise, go to investigate, and there he is. All I want is a first-shot hit (after I identify him as someone I don't know) and I want him to be impressed when that bullet finds him. Argue foot-pounds all you want, but nothing matters more than being able to shoot fast, accurately, and with a bullet that gets into his plumbing before he does the same to you.

I spent 30 years poring over ballistics charts and choosing ammo for myself and my troops, and my final conclusion was that it doesn't matter what you have, if you can't put it into the right spot, at speed, in the worst of conditions. Half-awake, in the dark, and scared out of your mind is not a place for foot-pound debates. It's all academic until it's your keister, and your family, in jeopardy.

I'd rather have a .32 I could shoot well than a 45 I just bought. I have a 40 Shield for carry, but my house gun is a 15-shot FN 45 with a light, because I want every advantage I can possibly get.

Sorry for the drift......I won't even get into the "Handloads for Defense" thing. But I use nothing but personally-tested factory loads in my duty and house guns. Why give an over-zealous Prosecutor extra ammo, when he already wants to burn you?

 

[Pilot172P]

All this talk about foot-pounds of energy and such just makes me laugh when you're talking about self-defense loads. The only thing I care about is how fast I can put loads in the Super-Owie-Zone of a bad guy when NOTHING is holding still. You're moving, the bad guy is moving, there is intermittent cover between you and him, and unless you heard him coming and set up an ambush, this is ALL moot. The gun that fits your hand best and points naturally is the one you want, regardless of caliber.

If I have to shoot someone (Gawd Fuhbid) I hope I'm behind cover, but damned few shootouts happen as planned. Shooting from cover would be nice, but rarely happens......you hear a noise, go to investigate, and there he is. All I want is a first-shot hit (after I identify him as someone I don't know) and I want him to be impressed when that bullet finds him. Argue foot-pounds all you want, but nothing matters more than being able to shoot fast, accurately, and with a bullet that gets into his plumbing before he does the same to you.

I spent 30 years poring over ballistics charts and choosing ammo for myself and my troops, and my final conclusion was that it doesn't matter what you have, if you can't put it into the right spot, at speed, in the worst of conditions. Half-awake, in the dark, and scared out of your mind is not a place for foot-pound debates. It's all academic until it's your keister, and your family, in jeopardy.

I'd rather have a .32 I could shoot well than a 45 I just bought. I have a 40 Shield for carry, but my house gun is a 15-shot FN 45 with a light, because I want every advantage I can possibly get.

Sorry for the drift......I won't even get into the "Handloads for Defense" thing. But I use nothing but personally-tested factory loads in my duty and house guns. Why give an over-zealous Prosecutor extra ammo, when he already wants to burn you?

Some very good points!

 

[AZ_M&P]

No offense but I live in SC and could give a rat's butt. And if somebody wants to sue me I can explain that I could have shot them with a full .357 mag load instead of one of my glorified .38 special +P+ rounds in .357 cases and tell them to compare that to a factory .357 Cor-bon or Buffalo Bore. And I'll bet I can even get somebody else to help pay for my defense. If we listen to all the scare talk we are sunk.

LOL I'm sure you're correct. What the heck were those lawyers thinking anyway right? I mean after all, in the remote chance you have to fire a weapon at someone it'll be easy to remember to dump the remaining handloads in your weapon, replace them with factory ammo (without being seen and before the police arrive), then keep that lie straight while you're grilled for hours over every detail about what happened.

Yep. Definitely worth the risk, as opposed to using that silly PD ammo designed by professionals for just that use.