Help identifying a Pre Model 10

[60CPT]

I was in my local shop and purchased this gun yesterday. It just spoke to me for some reason. Very nice action, and clean overall. But now, I'm not sure of what I really have and when it was made? Also not sure if the gun is factory nickel or not? It sure seems like it is as the finish is really nice. But, I always thought S&W never plated hammers and triggers? Please see link below for pictures of the gun. Any information would be appreciated! Hope I didn't pay too much for it!


SMITH & WESSON HAND EJECTOR PRE-MODEL 10 .38 SPL. DA/SA REVOLVER WITH 5 IN. BBL., NICKEL FINISH

 

[Absalom]

You have an early post-war Military & Police model that likely shipped in 1946. As you suspect, the plated hammer and trigger make it a virtual certainty that the finish is not original. Check whether there is a letter B in front of the serial on the flat underside of the barrel. The nickel finish does look very nicely done, and while a refinish would turn off collector interest, if you like the gun, you still got a nice one for $395.

 

[60CPT]

Thank you for the reply. No, there is no B in front of the serial number under the barrel. Only the S followed by the serial number just as it is on the bottom of the butt.

The gun doesn't look to be shot much at all. It really doesn't look like a re-nickel job at all? The dealer also thought it was too nice to be a refinish. There is no signs of over polishing or anything like that?

I know it wasn't cheap.....but the $395 was out the door price. There is no sales tax in DE. I had originally gone in to buy a mint 30-1 snubbie, but it sold before I got there. This one came home with me instead.

 

[Targets Guy]

Very nice. I am not a nickle fan but that is a nice one.

 

[Waveski]

I agree with Absalom. The nickeled hammer and trigger are a dead give away. I would say that there is also a bit of evidence in the fit of the side plate.

Nonetheless , you have a fine shooter , as clean as it can be.

 

[60CPT]

Is there a way to tell for certain if it is a refinish? I've owned a lot of guns in my day, and seen a lot of refinish jobs....but if this is one, whoever did it is REALLY good! Honestly, the gun doesn't look to have a box of shells through it. I have no idea why it would have been refinished if it was?

 

[Absalom]

The consensus is that if there is no B, the gun left the factory nickeled. There is simply no way the factory would have nickeled hammer and trigger. But I suppose a previous owner could have decided the whole gun would look better with a uniform finish; taking out those parts and nickeling them is no big deal. Otherwise, it would be a re-nickel job on the whole gun, that is, a previously nickeled gun had its finish refreshed, and the guy got over-enthusiastic and plated everything.

 

[60CPT]

Thank you Absalom. What you are saying makes sense. The more I look at this gun, I just can't believe it has been refinished. More likely, someone took the hammer and trigger out and had them nickeled for whatever reason. It's possible they may be just highly polished....I can't really tell for certain, and I don't really want to take the gun apart. It's too clean to pull apart now.

Is it known for sure that S&W never plated hammers and triggers? Like I mentioned, that is what I had always understood. It doesn't really matter as this gun isn't a collectors piece anyhow. I bought it to shoot 148 grain HBWC's through for my enjoyment!

It's got a buttery smooth action, and just had to come home with me. I would have liked to get it for $300, but in my parts you don't see any Smith for less than $300, and the ones you do are neglected.

I may pull the grips off tonight just to have a look under there. I appreciate all the information! I'm a Ruger guy, and only own a few Smiths. I prefer Smiths to Rugers when shooting .38 Specials.

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

When you pull the grips off, look for a stamped "N". There should also be a stamped "N" on the rear of the cylinder and the ejector star should be blued. If you find a stamp like 8.54, it went back to S&W in August 1954 for work.

Looking at the fit of the side plate, I would say it was been refinished. You can barely see the seam on a factory finished revolver. Your .38 has a really good finish, but in my opinion, it's not original.

Most collectors these days call the post WW II revolvers with the older long action a transitional model. When the short action was introduced up until the model number was stamped on the frame, these are referred to as the "pre" models. Yours is a transitional .38 Military & Police.

Model numbers were assigned by the factory in 1957 and the markings started showing up in 1958.

Enjoy. I like 5" revolvers. I have one like yours in blue.

 

[JP@AK]

What others have told you is correct. This is a postwar .38 Military & Police revolver. It probably shipped in October or November of 1946. The nickel plate on it is not original. The fit of the sideplate betrays this, along with the nickel on the hammer and trigger.

Having said that, I believe it is very likely this gun left the factory with a nickel finish. Other examples in that same serial range did. But this one has been refinished. Whoever did it, did a nice job, but left some tell-tale marks, as noted above. At least he didn't plate the extractor star.

At $395 I don't think you over paid. Even with the replacement nickel, it is still a nice gun and will make an excellent shooter. 5" barrels are nice.

 

[60CPT]

Thank you JP. Can I ask what is wrong with the fit of the sideplate? In person, it fits very well. The screw heads aren't bunged up at all either. Looks like it hasn't been messed with to my eyes. I'm not a S&W expert though.

Do you think this gun is worth it? I ask because this is my local dealer that I buy a lot from, and he will gladly take it back. I don't know what to think about it now. I was almost certain it was original finish. It honestly looks like it's hardly been shot at all. The bore is perfect on it. Now I'm starting to second guess the gun.....

 

[jmace57]

FWIW - in my opinion it wasnt a bad price... Especially in a retail setting. If you overpaid...Maybe $50. But if it is as mechanically nice and smooth as you say, it's worth every penny. I have a weakness for nickel guns. Enjoy it!

 

[60CPT]

Thank you jmace57. I appreciate your opinion. I will decide over the weekend what to do. The gunshop is closed until Monday anyhow. The gun is nice. I'm just surprised it is refinished. That bothers me a little bit, because I like my guns original, even if well worn from honest use. I was buying this as a shooter, because I liked the 5 inch barrel. I have another blued Model 10, but it is a 4 incher. This one just caught my eye. Whoever did the refinish is pretty talented. Maybe it was sent back to S&W and they did it? I don't know. If the gun could talk it would certainly tell us! Thank you again.

 

[JP@AK]

Thank you JP. Can I ask what is wrong with the fit of the sideplate? In person, it fits very well. The screw heads aren't bunged up at all either. Looks like it hasn't been messed with to my eyes. I'm not a S&W expert though.

There is more of a gap between the side plate and the frame than there should be. This is always a sign that the edges have been polished during a refinish. The factory would not have done this and the gap would be non-existent (barely a line between the fit points).
The nickel on the hammer and trigger would also not have been put there by the Service Department. The gun has been re-plated - although I agree with you the guy did a very good job.

Do you think this gun is worth it? I ask because this is my local dealer that I buy a lot from, and he will gladly take it back. I don't know what to think about it now. I was almost certain it was original finish. It honestly looks like it's hardly been shot at all. The bore is perfect on it. Now I'm starting to second guess the gun.....

I absolutely do think you got this revolver for a good price. Don't second guess yourself, just enjoy it. You did fine.

 

[JP@AK]

Look at the fit on these two side plates:

Unaltered side plate on a M&P from 1926. Note especially the fit at the very front of the side plate.

Refinished Victory Model:

Yours isn't as bad as the Victory, but it isn't as tight as the earlier M&P.

 

[Waveski]

JP@AK -

Excellent comparison. Also - note the fade in the "Made In USA" stamp just forward of the forward most side plate screw of the OP's nickeled M&P. I see some buffing fade there.

However - I still think that the OP got a great 5" shooter at a not too terrible price. I'd keep it and shoot it often. The guys at the range will like it , guaranteed.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

Welcome aboard! Gorgeous M&P.

Only you can decide whether to keep it. I would.

A while back I bought one similar to yours that likely shipped from the factory in 1956. Beneath the left stock are the numbers 8.78, indicating the gun went back to the factory in August 1978 and was refinished. The barrel and the cylinder have a star on them indicating they were installed by the factory (I'm guessing at the same time as the refinish) and the serial numbers on both pieces match the number on the butt. The barrel says ".38 S&W" (the British .38/200 caliber) but the cylinder is a .38 Special. I was going to send it back to the seller, and he -- not knowing the barrel and cylinder weren't the same caliber -- was going to give me a full refund, including shipping both ways.

JP@AK made one comment that he'd keep it on the thread I started about the gun. I got to thinking about it and have now received a .38 S&W cylinder (in blue) and one of the other forum guys is going to send me a blue extractor rod to match. So I'll end up with a pinto that is what the barrel says, but it's already a "parts gun" as one guy called (the stocks don't match) so it's no foul.

Best of luck with your decision.

Bob

 

[Absalom]

And if you decide to keep it, and you do as much business with your dealer as you indicate, you could always tell him the story of how you found out the gun was refinished and that you maybe paid just a bit too much, and that maybe he could help you scrounge up an original case-colored hammer and trigger . They're not hard to find and would restore your gun to its original appearance.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

Adding a bit of fuel to Absalom's fire...

The seller in my gun's case actually gave me $75 to help make the gun "right." Very, very generous on his part, and it was my first transaction with him. It won't be my last!

 

[60CPT]

Thank you for the pictures JP. That clears it up nicely. I see what you are talking about now with the sideplate fit.

I will talk with the dealer tomorrow or Tuesday, depending on when I can make it over to the shop. I'm still on the fence about it. Part of me says to keep it and just use it as my shooter, but then again in the event I would ever sell it I would disclose it as a refinish and I'm sure it wouldn't move fast.