Help me find out about a revolver I am thinking in buying please

[rotty]

Hello everyone.

I am in the lookout for a 4" revolver to keep my 6" 586-1 company. I have found two possible candidates online and I need some help from someone with the standard catalogue to find some info about my prospective buy.

Revolver number 1 is a 4" moonclipped 686. It is listed as in excellent condition. It has paych grips and has had a trigger job done to it. Serial number is CTA8702. So not sure if it is a -4 or a -5. Any help here with the date and variant will be appreciated.



Revolver number 2 is also a 4" 686. This one is listed as in good condition. The serial number in this is BEJ7765. This one has nice timber grips but no other info on offer. Could someone help me out with the same check on this one?



The second one is definitely older, but the first one has had work done so it probably has seen a lot of action.

They are both far from home so going and checking them out is not an option.

The asking prices are $649 for the first one and $600 for the second one.

I am in Australia so they won't be for carry or home defense as we don't have those laws here. So I intend to shoot them a lot at the range and in competitions.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

Regards.

 

[Invictus357]

Both look like nice guns.

I am 99% certain the first one is a 686-6.

If you look at the curve of the frame around the hammer, it is much less pronounced.

That leads to me to believe it has the internal lock system. It will also have MIM trigger and hammer plus the transfer safety bar.

I have a new 686+ and have no problems at all with MIM or the lock. Just letting you know what you're getting.

I can't date the second but it is at the latest a -4. The real experts here could date it for you. This one has no lock and most likely has the forged hammer, trigger and no transfer safety bar.

I assume those are Oz bucks. Even so looks like a good price as they sell for around the same stateside.

I hope you guys fight everyday for the fragile gun rights you still have.

Best of luck.

 

[rotty]

Hello mate!

Thanks for your help. You are right about the curvature of the first one. I had hopes it was a pre-lock. I am not too concerned about the MIM parts or the lock, but in the flesh the older smiths look nicer. Hence why I love my 586-1.

We keep fighting for our rights as much as we can. That is why we keep competing and having a reason for owning our guns, even if the reason is only sports or hunting.

Hopefully I will be able to contribute with the Australian shooting community even more in a few months if my business venture succeeds.

Regards.

 

[gr7070]

For your specific circumstances I'd take the newer one with the trigger job.

I'm guessing in Australia you don't have the collector's market with the high demand for what is really a non-collector gun - a not that old, not that rare 686.

Also you're planning to shoot it plenty. That trigger job will likely be much appreciated by you!

For *you* the newer one makes more sense.

Use the price of the $600 to get the $650 to come down $50 or more. Whichever you buy will be an equally fun gun!

 

[jrhoney]

I would purchase the second because of the forged parts and for some reason, older S&Ws just feel better and the actions have a better fit. That being said, I would try and get my hands on both and feel which is best. But that is a subjective point of view, you may like the newer one. That moonclip conversion would be interesting to have in the rack.

 

[rotty]

The shop selling the first one are very good and have given me good deals in the past. Problem with getting it in my hands to try is the fact that the shop is 1 hour away if I catch a plane .

The second one is about 2 hours drive away so not that easy to see in the flesh either.

Market here in Australia is difficult, the shop selling the newer one would not drop the price based on what the other one is worth, the best that they could do for me is probably waive the $50 or so postage. And send it to my dealer. My dealer is quite reasonable and usually doesn't charge me for the transfer or storage.

The other one I could pick up myself from that dealer, but would have to work out any extra costs (transfer and storage while the Permit to Acquire arrives)

Decisions decisions. The wife gave me the OK today for a 4" and those 2 pop out. I have been trying to locate a 4" for a couple of months now and then two come along at the same time.

While the moonclipped seems interesting it also would mean that I have to buy the clips and the tool to clip and unclip the rounds. I am not sure what kind of clipping job has been done to it and if it would still accept and shoot loose rounds and speed loaders.

You guys are so fortunate that your market is so big and you have so many hidden gems and bargains to be found.

 

[PMRet]

According to SCSW, based on the serial number revolver #1 dates to 2004 and would therefore have MIM parts and the internal lock. Revolver #2 dates to 1989, and it's obvious from the picture that it has forged parts (flash chromed hammer and trigger) and has no lock.

If it were me, there's no question I would take #2 simply because I like the older guns, and don't own anything produced after 1991. But that's just my personal preference, I'm sure there's nothing wrong with the newer guns.

 

[Lou_NC]

I like having moon clips in the .45ACP N-frame guns, but you should be aware that due to the narrower slot above the rim in the .38/.357 cases, the moon clips for those guns are (by necessity) thinner, and could therefore be more prone to bending (which would be quite annoying to me). I'm not knocking the idea of a moonclipped .357, just pointing this out so you could make an informed decision.

Also, as you know, they're not making the pre-lock guns anymore, so in my mind, they'll always be more valuable and collectible.

Lou

 

[rotty]

Wonderful.

So according to those dates they are a 686-6 for the 2004 model which is still the current variant and a 686-3 for the 1989 one.

My 586-1 is a 1987 model so if it is in good shape I would probably try to get the second one to have two pre-locks. It is located closer to my place too.

Thank you all very much! This really is a wonderful forum and there is not one day that I don't learn something new.



EDIT: one shooter at my gun club has a 4" 586 no dash that he bought brand new in 1980 or thereabouts. He has not done any work to it but has shot literally thousands of rounds competing in IPSC with it. He still competes in the revolver division with it and that revolver after so many rounds has the smoothest and nicest DA trigger I have felt in a revolver. It has had a steady diet of magnum ammo and doesn't skip a beat. I hope I can buy it from him some day.

 

[rotty]

The second one was sold

Let's see what happens with the other one.

 

[rotty]

Done deal!

The one with the lock is mine!

Now to wait about two weeks for the Permit to Acquire and to pick it up from my local dealer.

Photos will come of course.

Thanks everyone.

 

[rotty]

I wanted the older one, but it was gone yesterday afternoon and I called at the end of the day.

The other one was still there and the dealer actually tried in the morning for me. He said that it shoots fine with and without the moon clip.

Well I am going to enjoy it anyway.

Thanks.

 

[scooter123]

By design any properly machined moon clipped cylinder will retain the ability to shoot loose ammo as long as the caliber is either a rimmed cartriidge or the revolver is a single caliber option. Specifically, your 686 should shoot loose ammo without any problems except having to shake or poke the empties out.

I'll also point out that Invictus357 is a bit misinformed. S&W does not now and never has used a transfer bar safety in thier revolvers. He is probably confusing the hammer blocking safety for a transfer bar and it is NOT a transfer bar, it's simply an internal hammer blocking safety. It is also a safety mechanism that has been featured on every S&W revolver with an exposed hammer since the end or WWII. Meaning it is present on models with the firing pin on the hammer and models with the firing pin in the frame.

I'll also tell you that there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the MIM parts. In fact I find that the MIM parts fit so well that the MIM lockworks take about 1/2 as long for a full action tuning as the older Forged lockworks. As for the internal lock, wish they didn't have them but I haven't found them to actually cause any problems in something as heavy as a 686. Between my 610, 620, & 625 I have many many thousands of rounds fired without any issues with the internal lock of any description.

Now for one issue that I can report is common to the stainless steel revolvers. That is the stainless steel strain screws are noticeably soft. Because of this at some point you'll face "light strike" issues due to the strain screw peening to a shorter length. BTW, on a "closely" tuned action this becomes apparent much sooner than on a revolver that is operating at full factory power in the mainspring. Since I tume my revolvers somewhat close to the misfire point I've found that misfires can start to appear at somewhere around the 3000 round mark. For a revolver with the mainspring at full factory power I expect that it'll take at least 15-20K rounds for the strain screw to peen short enough to cause misfires. Bad news is that at that point the burr on the strain screw will have to be filed down with it installed in the frame because that burr will be quite large in diameter.

If you decide to retain the stainless strain screw I would recomend replacing your strain screw every 2000 rounds fired or at a minimum removing it from the frame and filing down the burr that forms on the end due to peening. Because if you let that burr grow too large it can make removing the strain screw either difficult or nearly impossible. Another suggestion is to drop the stainless strain screw altogether and replace it with a blued steel strain screw, they are not nearly as soft.

 

[Invictus357]

Done deal!

The one with the lock is mine!

Now to wait about two weeks for the Permit to Acquire and to pick it up from my local dealer.

Photos will come of course.

Thanks everyone.

Despite the fondness on these boards for older Smiths, the truth is that the 686-6 is a wonderful gun to own.

In about 50 years from now, these boards will be fuming when Smith ditches MIM for hardened space jelly.

"I refuse to buy a new Smith as long it has hardened space jelly. I want my MIM hammer and trigger back!!!!"



We all look forward to your pics and review.