Help me id this 38 please. (pics & info)

[jakerson9]

Im trying to id an old S&W .38 revolver. I would be very thankful for any thoughts or suggestions.

It is beautiful, and I might buy it. There's no model number on the revolver and a 5-digit serial number of 52***. There are patent dates on it. I think there is a 1904, and a dec 1919. I haven't seen it in person. The photos aren't the greatest. What do you think?

 

[DWalt]

Are you CERTAIN about the serial number? (it is on the butt, also under the barrel, and on the rear face of the cylinder - you must check them all) The SN you provide is far too low if there is a 1919 patent date stamped on the barrel as you say. Is there a letter in front of the SN? I can't read the caliber stamping on the barrel. Does it say .38 S&W Special? If the SN on the butt is correct, I suspect it may be a parts gun - all SNs should match. Could be an early frame with a possible later barrel and/or possibly a later cylinder. Short answer is that is a S&W Model 1905 M&P without original grips, but that's all that can be said right now. Picture quality is too poor to determine if it has been refinished, but that is a real possibility and I suspect it may be. Do not buy it without much better information from the seller - there is something highly suspicious about it, and it could have little value.

 

[k22fan]

Here's the easy part: it's a 5" barrel Military & Police made between the mid 1920s and 1950.

Like DWalt posted, having the correct serial number would pin it down. You mistook the assembly number for the serial number. All S&W hand ejector revolvers have an assembly or soft fitting number stamped on their frame, yoke and back side of their side plate. Those 3 parts are fitted to each other. The assembly number keeps them together until the frame is assigned a serial number. On your M&P the frame's assembly number is below the barrel where it is covered by the yoke. The serial number is on the bottom of the grip frame. If your M&P is a post WWII transitional the serial number will begin with an S that is separated from the numbers.

Just because its fun to play ID this gun I'm going to guess your M&P is a .38 special made before WWII based on its bright blue and the lack of any sign of refinishing. post WWII transitionals got a brushed finish unless a bright finish was special ordered.

DWalt is correct that the value of a collector gun can not be evaluated without first determining if it has been refinished. As a very rough rule of thumb the value of skillfully refinished guns is either half what their collector value would be with original finish or their utility value, which ever is greater.

Incidentally, the last patent date is 1915.

 

[DWalt]

I cannot tell for sure from the photographs, but it does not appear that there is a "Made in USA" stamping on the right side of the frame. If true, that would date it from about 1922 or earlier. In any event, establishing all three serial numbers is an essential first step to determining exactly what this is (besides the obvious).

If the patent date is truly 1915, and there is no "Made in USA" stamping, that would put it in perhaps the 1916-1922 period, and the SN would likely be somewhere in the range between (roughly) 250000 and 400000, give or take, making it probably a 1905, 4th Change.
--------
Looking more closely, there may be a "Made in USA" stamp, but it's still unclear. If so, the SN would be above 400,000.

 

[mikepriwer]

If that is the original extractor rod, with the smaller nob, the gun is later. Also, I think
I see, very fainly, the "Made in USA" roll mark on the right side of the frame, just forward
of the leading sideplate screw.

Mike Priwer

 

[jakerson9]

Thank you all! I appreciate the help.

Again I realize... I just don't know enough.

 

[mr-mom]

Yah, we all have a lot to learn. Stick around. This is a great place to learn!
Dave

 

[tom turner]

Hi jakerson9, and we appreciate your service Marine!

If you can provide the serial number (and just use an X for two or three of the last numbers if you wish) and the revolver can be quickly dated for you right here by one of our experienced members!

I'm guessing late '30's, but just for fun! I'd like to know too, for it helps us ALL to learn better!

One thing is for sure, those Hogue "rubbers" ain't original! Once you know the date I'm sure someone will post a photograph below it which will show you the correct "stocks" (that's S&W's term for their original wood grips) that this gun came with. Then, if you are interested, you can eventually find a correct set of stocks here too I'd imagine!

Stick around too, it is a great place with great folks . . . but I gotta warn ya . . . vintage S&W revolvers can be addictive! LOL

 

[jakerson9]

Thanks for the info Tom. Are you sure the Hogues aren't original? Must have come with Pachmayrs then, right? (just kidding) Thanks for the welcome. I appreciate it

So now the owner is selling this pistol. asking price is $500.

Here's more info on the markings:
1) Right side of barrel: 38 S & W Special CTG
2) Left Side Of Barrel: SMITH & WESSON
3) Top Of Barrel-Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass. USA Patented FEB. 6. 06 SEPT. 14.09. DEC.29.14

I will try to look at it later today, try to get the Hogues off it so I can get at the "real" serial number. If the finish is as pretty as I think it is and if the action is as tight as I think it is, I will probably buy it. ( for shooting, not collecting )

Thanks again!

 

[DWalt]

For me, being a possible re-blue and non-original grips, I'd say (sight unseen) not much beyond $300. $500 would be what you might pay for one which is in top condition and all-original.