Help me select a 1911 or a Nightguard Revolver

[bassoneer]

I am in the market for a new gun and would like some input. I currently have several S&W revolvers (38's and .357's) and would like to get a .45 ACP...I like the looks of 1911's. I have looked at Springfield, Kimber and S&W. I can't afford Wilsons and the more expensive brands, so if I get a 1911 it will be between these three.

I am looking at a 4.25" (Commander-sized) S&W 1911 that is two-tone with a rosewood grip and it weighes a little less than 30 oz (empty). It is a 7+1 model. My problem is that I had a Colt Commander and it was completely unreliable. Almost to the point of turning me off all semi-autos. I had it to a professional gunsmith several times, spent several hundred dollars on performance/reliability tuning, and it still had FTF/FTE. I also have friends with 1911's and they all seem to jam. So, I'm skeptical about carrying a 1911, although I think the .45 ACP round is awesome. I just lost a lot of confidence, and I'm wondering what you guys think about your S&W 1911's, especially compared to Springfield and Kimber. I'm sure it would be accurate, but will it fire when I need it to? And I don't want to fiddle with it all the time, tuning extractors, polishing feed ramps, replacing ejectors, installing new guide rods, etc., etc., etc. Maybe I should just stay away from 1911's?

As an alternative, I can get the little black Nightguard 327 revolver that holds 8 rounds of .357 magnum and weighes 27.6 oz empty. Complete reliability. I want the 1911, but if it's not 100% reliable, I would rather have another revolver. Which one should I purchase? Advice?

Thanks, B

 

[shooter1950]

Sounds more like shooting reloads that was not correct, that's alot of problems with factory ammo even after a trip to the gunsmith not to be reliable.

 

[bassoneer]

Sounds more like shooting reloads that was not correct, that's alot of problems with factory ammo even after a trip to the gunsmith not to be reliable.

Well, the topic isn't really that Colt Commander that I had problems with...I never shot a reload in that gun when I had it. I shot about 10 different types of newly manufactured ammo and none of it worked properly...and it wasn't "limp wristing"...I am 320# and I had several other men shoot it also. It was just an awful, awful gun. It was an older model from the 1970's...supposedly a very highly sought after gun. If somebody gave me another one, I would sell it.

The real question is this...Is there a 1911 that is 100% reliable? I think the answer is no, and I'm leaning toward staying with revolvers, but I was hoping somebody could convince me otherwise. Do you have any 100% reliable 1911's? If so, what model?

Thanks, B

 

[shovelwrench]

If your "gunsmith" couldn't make it run, he probably had no business playin with it.

Unless someone seriously messed up something in that Colt, a competent smith shoulda had it runnin in no time.

All my 1911s are 100% reliable (except for my .38 special, which is normal). All the guys I shoot with that have 1911s are 100% reliable.

Sure we get an occasional reload induced failure to somethin, but your talkin target loads. Fill em with ball, or full power reloads and they run like a clock.

 

[novalty]

I would suggest the 1911PD with Scandium frame, think that will meet your requirement needs.

 

[Big Cholla]

bassoneer: IMHO, from what you wrote, you didn't have a 1911 smith, you had a poser. Back when I was professionally smithing 1911, I was able to make 1911s run that came from the factory (not Colt) with miss-bored pin holes. But, I digress. I handled that very S&W 4.5" model in .45 ACP last week at the Shot Show. I liked it so well that I am contemplating buying one for myself and the last thing I need is another handgun on the 1911 frame. The S&W .45 gets my recommendation. Buy it, clean it, lightly oil the rails, run about 200 rounds of 'ball' ammo thru it, clean it again and go to your choice of serious social ammo. Buy a couple of extra magazines from Chip McCormick or C Products. Run 50 rounds of that self defense ammo thru your gun and you are good to go. .......... Big Cholla

 

[bassoneer]

bassoneer: IMHO, from what you wrote, you didn't have a 1911 smith, you had a poser. Back when I was professionally smithing 1911, I was able to make 1911s run that came from the factory (not Colt) with miss-bored pin holes. But, I digress. I handled that very S&W 4.5" model in .45 ACP last week at the Shot Show. I liked it so well that I am contemplating buying one for myself and the last thing I need is another handgun on the 1911 frame. The S&W .45 gets my recommendation. Buy it, clean it, lightly oil the rails, run about 200 rounds of 'ball' ammo thru it, clean it again and go to your choice of serious social ammo. Buy a couple of extra magazines from Chip McCormick or C Products. Run 50 rounds of that self defense ammo thru your gun and you are good to go. .......... Big Cholla

I agree with everyone's assessment of the gunsmith. I wouldn't let him wash my car at this point. However, you said what I wanted to hear... 1911's can be reliable. I should have never mentioned that Colt because it took up a lot of everybody's time. I can get that S&W from Bud's Gun Shop on line for $913 + shipping and FFL's. Does that sound like a good price? Also, does the external extractor work better than the original type? And on a couple of my newer S&W revolvers, there is a stinking internal lock...do the 1911's have anything like that to look out for? Thanks, B

 

[borntoraisehogs]

I thought it was normal to have gunsmiths work over your 1911 when new , until I got my Kimber , Shoot great out of the box and with any like good ammo , it just does not jam . I carry it everyday and have no worry what so ever it will do its part if I do mine . I have heard people say things about the new ones not being perfect , but still good , very good . You might Look around for a lightly used Classic Custom , instead of the newer models with the II after the designation . I prefer the full size 1911 in a blued , no frills model , in what ever brand you choose . Half the fun of 1911 is getting them grips and safeties , slide releases and sights how you want them . So the basic one is the best staring point .

 

[shooter1950]

Grab your pants and cover your mouth, hear it comes. I own a 1911 metro arms American classic II with over 1500 rounds which 1000 are reloads with no FTF or FTE with anything I've shot thru it. It cost less than $400.00 and you can find great reviews on that model. It's made by metro arms not LLama.

 

[SK2344]

I own the S&W 1911PD and have had no trouble at all, not one malfunction. I think you will be very happy with this .45 with the 8 rd mag and one in the tube. Good Luck!!!

 

[Big Cholla]

bassoneer: Colt has reintroduced the "70 Series" design without the internal firing pin block. Personally, I grew to rather like the "80 Series" design after I learned how to do a good trigger job with the firing pin block intact. I for one think that the external extractor is an improvement to the original JMB design. S&W knows external extractors backwards and forwards. Their application is going to be right. The internal JMB design was always 'iffy' to get tuned just right and then just when one has it 'just right' it will relax in curvature just a little and go to needing tuning again. Internal extractors are not obvious and logical when comes to tuning to correct a fault. IMHO, I will go with an external extractor every chance I get. I wouldn't give the internal firing pin block a second thought. It will unobtrusively do its job given a little semi-dry break-in. ......... Big Cholla

 

[bettis1]

This will probably get me flamed but it IS my observation. Anyone who has spent many hours on the line in defensive gun classes or talked to those who conduct them will acknowledge that the 1911 style is significantly more prone to malfunctioning than are the other usual suspects seen there(i.e. the Glocks, the Sigs, the Rugers, etc.). It also seems that the degree of failure is directly related to the cost of the 1911. I attribute that to the fact that the tolerances are so close on those guns. I put some of that blame on the owners who buy a high dollar gun and promptly head to the class without proper breaking in...but on the other hand, why should you have to break in that gun when other guns are 100% reliable right out of the box. We all know that the older, looser military 1911's are unstoppable with ball ammo. I do believe that the more expensive custom guns can be made to be reliable after tuning and firing many hundreds/thousands or rounds, but other than just pride of ownership, why go to the trouble?

Bob

 

[WildCard ZX6R]

Both my Springers have been 100%.

 

[brucev]

Shopping for a new pistol is always fun! Personally I have always appreciated the 1911 design and the .45 ACP round. You do not have to spend the price of a used car to get a good, reliable 1911 pistol.

My first 1911 was a COLT Combat Commander in .45 ACP. I can not recall that it was anything except reliable with normal ball rounds. Back then I did not particularly care for JHP rounds. Since then I've owned a number of 1911 pistols produced mostly by Colt, Springfield and Kimber as well as some parts guns. Properly set up, they have run well with both ball and JHP ammo. I currently own a box stock Springfield Mil Spec. 1911 in .45 ACP that has been 100% reliable with all ammunition types. The S&W 1911 has a good reputation. There is no reason you should have a problem with it. Should for some reason you have a problem with a S&W 1911, you would only need to contact S&W and they would make it right. It may be that because of your affinity for revolvers you might prefer the 327. Both the S&W 1911 or the 327 would serve your needs well. Either would be a good choice. Personally for SD/HD, I would choose the S&W 1911 as I prefer that design and .45 ACP for that purpose. But the 327 loaded with 8 rounds of .357 Magnum ammunition would most assuredly be a very effective choice for SD/HD. JMHO. Sincerely. brucev.

 

[andyo5]

Why do you only mention 1911s? There are many other reliable 45 autos other than 1911s. S&W makes several current models as well as ALL the major and minor players.
I had a Colt that was also unreliable. I have a Kimber and a Para Ordnance now and both are 100% reliable. I would carry either one (if they weren't so heavy). I also have a S&W 4586 which is dead reliable, and just bought an aluminum framed 4583 that I also expect to be totally reliable. It weighs 29 ounces empty and was purchased as a carry gun. There is no reason to confine your thinking to 1911s.

 

[Combat_Diver]

I've carried the M1911A1 for years in the Army and alongside my M9. My son is still carrying a cocked and locked M1911A1 in Iraq today (nice to be in SF). But I won't comment on the current commerical guns as I have no experience with them. I would bring up several other suggestions. You like the .45 ACP cartridge then suggest you look at the Night Guard 325 in .45 also. You also state you like both the 1911 and .357 mag then good news is that Coonan is coming back out with the Model B in .357. I used to own two that were 100% realible with mag cases (.38s need a lighter recoil spring) and would even feed a empty 38 case from the mag into the chamber. Might have to pony up and get another one along with the dozen or so Smiths on my wish list. Enjoy the search.........

CD

 

[bassoneer]

Why do you only mention 1911s? There are many other reliable 45 autos other than 1911s. S&W makes several current models as well as ALL the major and minor players.
I had a Colt that was also unreliable. I have a Kimber and a Para Ordnance now and both are 100% reliable. I would carry either one (if they weren't so heavy). I also have a S&W 4586 which is dead reliable, and just bought an aluminum framed 4583 that I also expect to be totally reliable. It weighs 29 ounces empty and was purchased as a carry gun. There is no reason to confine your thinking to 1911s.

I think you're right, but that's a whole world I have not entered into yet. I have the revolvers about 75% figured out, and the 1911's about 50% figured out, but have not tried to learn the model numbers for the non-1911's. I have seen some nice S&W's that were not 1911's, but until I get the 1911 in the collection I'll probably wait on the others.

As a side note, my grandfather never owned a S&W, but he had several guns. He always told me that S&W's were the best gun made. I now own three of them, and soon may make it four. I think of him everytime I get one out and look at it.

Thanks, B

 

[Jhawk412]

I've had several unreliable 1911's in the past so I hesitated a long time before I got the S&W 1911. But I wanted an auto that fit my hand with a laser attached and also wanted to move to a .45.

Smith .45s have both functioned perfectly and I was amazed. I got the full sized stainless model with Crimson Trace and it did so well I got the 1911PD 4.25" w/ Crimson Trace on it. I am a big laser fan for low-light, no light shooting. I prefer the higher capacity over the .45 revolvers and slimmer design for CCW.

I've been a Glock guy for a while but started carrying the S&W 1911 on my own time.

 

[TennTony]

Definitely get a 1911. To me, it is the easiest gun to shoot accurately. Slow fire, you should be putting the entire clip through one ragged hole at 5-7 yards after you get it broken in and learn to shoot it well. I do not have a S&W 1911 but feel any of their models would be an excellent choice.

 

[TXbug]

Smith & Wesson make file revolvers chambered for the .45ACP. If you are skeptical about 1911's, look at the Smith 25 or 625 or 325.