Help needed on 158gr SJHP for .38spl and +P

[lmcgust]

Hi reloaders,

I'm fairly new at reloading and seek your advice on Semi-Jacketed Hollow Point reloading tips. I'm having trouble locating 148gr HBWC, so I had to settle for bulk Remington 158gr SJHP which is plenty available locally. My revolver is a six-inch 686.

I looked for loading data in my Hornady, Sierra, Speer and Lyman reloading books with no luck. Same for Remington web site. The Speer manual even seem to discourage loading heavy 158 gr bullets in .38 spl.

After reflecting on all this, perhaps this bullet is meant for .357 Mag rather than .38 spl or +P. What do you guys think? If it is safe to load for .38 spl or +P, do you have recommendation for loading data?

Regards,
Guy -

 

[OKFC05]

HP38/231, among others, wil safely propel a 158gr HP in a .38.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

 

[Steve C]

Speer quit listing data for 158gr jacketed HP bullets for the .38 spl because you can't drive them fast enough to ensure reliable expansion. Since you have a .357 mag revolver just save the jacketed for the magnum loads. Look for some Remington 125gr jacketed HP's or SP's if you want to load jacketed bullets in the .38 spl.

For target loads I'd suggest ordering some lead bullets from one of the many commercial casters or order Speer or Hornady swagged bullets for a much more economical alternative to jacketed bullets. You can find 158gr lead RN or SWC bullets or 148gr WC bullets easily.

 

[nitesite]

I agree that a jacketed 158-gr HP probably won't expand at .38-Special velocities. But you can shoot 'em safely all day long from your 686 with .38-Spl +P load data.

The fact that your bullets are semi-jacketed instead of jacketed hollow points (in other words, yours have an exposed lead area at the nose and JHP doesn't) has no significant meaning in the reloading process.

Yeah, your Remington bullet might have slightly different bore friction than say, a Hornady or Sierra jacketed HP but the difference between all of them is really small. Seating depths are going to be almost identical and I would say that seating/crimping to the cannelure is pretty safe no matter what jacketed 158-gr bullet you seat in a .38-Special.

I checked my Hornady 7th and Sierra v.5 manuals and there are lots of powders mentioned for a 158-gr jacketed HP in .38-Special. Of course, the bullet makers manuals mention their specific bullet but if you use the Remington SJHPs you'll be fine as long as you back off about 10% from MAX and watch for problems as you work up to where you want to be.

 

[Treeman]

Since lead bullets can do everything that can be done in 38 special and do it faster at lower pressures, and since I am a caster, I eschew condomized slugs........however, there are tons of tested, loads listed in various manuals. Some are cautious about loading 158s DOWN from top pressures since some doofus somewhere stuck a bullet in the bore and more than one guy has managed to start a half jacket slug at low speed/pressure and had the core squirt downrange with the jacket stuck partway down the barrel. It really ISN"T a big deal to grab a recipe for a top standard pressure load and use it or work it up to the listed +P loads. Speer #10 and 11 are full of such loads-so are various Sierra, Hornady, Hodgdon And Lyman manuals.

 

[lmcgust]

Being new at this, I looked for an exact recipe for the SJHP. After reading your comments, I realized the loading data for jacketed 158gr taken from a good reference (Hornady,..) is safe. I admit the remarks from the Speer manual regarding 158gr threw me off a little as well.

I plan to start with 4.7 grains of Unique.

BR,
Guy -

 

[Kirmdog]

Hornady 4th edition handbook of cartridge reloading lists +P loads for the 38 Special with 158 gr bullets( one of many older reloading manuals that do ). Just so you are aware, your suggested 4.7 of Unique is listed as max in this Hornady reloading book with 158 gr. jacketed.

As stated by others, non of these +P loads are very fast with that bullet weight and you would be better off with lead bullets, lighter weight jacketed bullets or using .357 mag brass and shooting it instead of the +P 38 Specials.

Kirmdog

 

[nitesite]

And to make things even more difficult for lmcgust to know where to start, the Hornady Five manual has two of their 158-gr jacketed bullets with a Win small primer at 4.8-gr of Unique for max .38-special and 5.1-gr of Unique for a +P load.

Myself, I'd carefully load a few at around 4.7 of Unique with a standard primer and see if I wanted to go up from there. That's very close to a 10% reduction from the +P loading and should be very safe if he's especially careful during his early learning phase.

Less than 4.7 would yield extremely low velocities which could be a bad thing, and of course there would be incomplete powder burn as well.

 

[Jellybean]

Hornady 4th edition handbook of cartridge reloading lists +P loads for the 38 Special with 158 gr bullets( one of many older reloading manuals that do ). Just so you are aware, your suggested 4.7 of Unique is listed as max in this Hornady reloading book with 158 gr. jacketed.

As Kirmdog noted this is max in Hornadys 4th edition, which is using their 158gr. XTP JHP and JFP. Having a few older manuals I looked in Hornadys 2nd edition which listed a 158 gr. JHP and JFP, not XTPs. Starting load with Unique is 5.0 grs and max is 5.9. Their data for both books were obtained from S&W revolvers so I doubt they have any pressure data.

Lyman no. 49 lists data using the Hornady 158 JHP/XTP. The data for Unique starts at 4.7 grains and has a max at 5.0 grains for non +P, the max for +P is 5.2 grains. Lyman does use a pressure test reciever, at 5.0 grains they show 16,600cup. At 5.2 it shows 18,200cup. Pressure at the 4.7 grain starting load is 14,400cup. I wouldn't go below that, if it were me.

 

[Skip Sackett]

First off, those bullets are just fine for the 38spl or the 357mag, period.

One significant thing to remember is this, velocity has to be towards the top end of any data so you don't have bullet separation in the barrel. That is where the jacket stays in the barrel but the lead core exits. If you can find a load to drive that bullet above 700fps, you won't have any problem. Will they expand? Does the paper target really care? I've never eaten a paper target but killing them is pretty easy, friend!

Unique, according to some folks (not me) is the best powder for the 38spl, hands down. You have made a good choice because there is a lot of data for it in that caliber.

You can use a recipe for a 158gr JHP for that bullet with the caution mentioned above. For me that would be 4.8gr and no less. At the reported pressure range of 14,400cup to 16,600cup you run no danger to a firearm that is designed to withstand nearly 3 times that on a regular basis. (42,000cup)

FWIW

 

[lmcgust]

I'm impressed by the quality of the comments on this board. You guys are good and what you state makes sense.

I settled on 4.7gr of Unique based on these .38 +P figures:

1) Sierra 5th edition: max is 6.1gr@ 900 ft/sec for 158gr JHC/JSP
2) Hornady 7th edition: max is 5.1gr@800ft/sec for 158gr HP-XTP
3) Lyman 3rd edition revolver handbook: max is 5.2@761ft/sec for 158gr JHP(18200 c.u.p.)

taking 10% off of 5.2gr, I get ~4.7gr. I might go for Smith Crazy's advice to start with 4.8gr. By the way, you mention that Unique is favorite for many .38 spl loaders but you don't mention your favorite choice. What is it for you? Bullseye? 231?

thanks again all for your excellent comments,

Best regards,
Guy -

 

[nitesite]

What's my favorite .38-Special powder?

Unique

With hard cast LSWC 158s it's 5.2 grains and a Federal primer. I've gone higher in my S&W .357 Magnum revolvers and a 4" Ruger Service Six .38-Special. But 5.2 is quite safe and burns cleanly with good chrono numbers regarding ES and SD.

With 158-gr Remington JSPs I use 5.0-grains of Unique with some throws weighing 5.1-grains.

Your starting load of 4.8 is gonna be a good start and you might even find yourself loading a tad higher as you gain experience and confidence.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

What is it for you? Bullseye? 231?

My favorite powder for loading for the .38 Special is W231. For the .38 Special +P I have used 3 different powders and I like them all. With a 135-140gr bullet I use AA#5 to replicate the Speer .38 Special +P Short Barrel ammo. With lead 158gr bullets I use HS-6 and with Jacketed 158gr bullets I use Longshot. I know it seems like I complicate things but I like the results I get.

BTW, I get better results from HS-6 when I use a Magnum primer. It's a fairly hard powder to ignite so the Magnum primer helps and I get good velocity and accuracy using HS-6. It makes a great "FBI Load" replica.

 

[claybird]

Want to save money? Shoot lead while we still can. I have been shooting 158 gr.lead in Smiths and Rugers for over 30 years.