Help on .32 Winchester grip frames?

[JP@AK]

Guys

I've become curious about something relating to the .32 Winchester Hand Ejectors (.32-20).

We know that square butts showed up sometime in 1904, on both the .32-20 HE and .38 HE. But I can't find any information on what the .32-20 serial number range was when the square butts appeared. The closest I can come to finding any mention of it is in Jinks (History of Smith & Wesson). The table on p. 161 shows it being between 9,812 and 18,125.

Could you please take a look at any .32 Winchester revolvers you have with square butts and help me identify early guns that don't have a round butt? I'm guessing that it is somewhere around serial number 15,000, but I have no proof of that. The earliest .32 Winchester I own shipped in March, 1904, and it has the round butt. Serial number is below 9,000. The next oldest in my collection shipped in the late teens.

Help?

Thanks!

 

[22hipower]

Jack, my square butt 32-20s are all much higher SNs but I do have a round butt numbered 12919 so the square butt started sometime after that.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[handejector]

Are you sure that the 32/20 square butts showed up in 1904? I have not kept up with all that Mike has written about them.
The only 38 M&P Square Butt with the early four screw frame (making it a 1902-1st to me and Roy ) was shipped in 1905.


I have noticed that early Square Butt 32/20s are scarce. They seem to most often be round butts till we get well into the 1905-1st Change. I wonder if they were just that slow to sell?


Not much help, but I have-
32/20 Round Butt Blue 5", Ser# 2336X that Roy says is open on the books, but numbers around it shipped in 1906.


32/20 Square Butt Blue 5", Ser# 2482X
that I requested a ship date on just for you. I'll be back with it.

 

[JP@AK]

I do have a round butt numbered 12919 so the square butt started sometime after that

(emphasis added).

Thanks, Jeff.

Not necessarily, since they kept making round butts even after the square butts came out.

 

[JP@AK]

Are you sure that the 32/20 square butts showed up in 1904?

No, I'm not sure. But that is what Jim Supica wrote in the SCSW. I've not seen or read anything that contradicts it.

The only 38 M&P Square Butt with the early four screw frame . . . was shipped in 1905.

That is an interesting statistic. Thanks.

I have noticed that early Square Butt 32/20s are scarce.

I have observed that also.

I have-
32/20 Round Butt Blue 5", Ser# 2336X that Roy says is open on the books, but numbers around it shipped in 1906.

32/20 Square Butt Blue 5", Ser# 2482X
that I requested a ship date on just for you.

Thank you! I'll be interested to hear what Roy has to say.

I found a .32 Winchester, numbered at 24865, that has the square butt. I plan to ask Roy when it shipped.

My thanks to those who have replied so far.

 

[rct269]

Both mine are target in the (likely??) event that makes any difference---and both are square. Earliest gun is 42094, shipped December 22, 1908---later is much later-----114655 shipped August 21, 1923.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[JP@AK]

Both mine are target in the (likely??) event that makes any difference

It might, since the early target models with the round butt are scarce. This one shipped in March, 1904, and has a serial number in the low 8,000 range.

 

[goatsnguns]

I have a 1905 1st change, 32 Winchester, s/n 22997 shipped March 1906.

 

[rct269]

In a perhaps somewhat related (and perhaps somewhat interesting) vein, I have one of those square butt things Lee, Roy and I like to call a Model of 1902 First Change Target (.38, #59794, shipped February 26, 1906). It was delivered to "Edward H. Burton, Shop". As noted, it's a square butt; and those facts seemed to get Roy's motor running more than usual. After noting it was shipped with "checkered walnut square butt grips", he went on thus: "This revolver is in the serial range for a round butt rather than a square butt. It certainly was shipped after the square butt model had been introduced. It would lead to speculation if Mr. Burton was involved in the design of the square butt." At that point, he went hunting for Mr. Burton in "the Springfield and area city directories"---and came up empty. He goes on, noting "----in an early 1900 factory picture of the company foremen I have a picture of Mr. Edward H. Burt and wonder if the caption on the picture is wrong."

The moral of this story is the life of the S&W historian is not all beer and skittles----and neither is the life of some of the collectors.

Keep on keeping on!!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[bruce5781]

"The only 38 M&P Square Butt with the early four screw frame . . . was shipped in 1905."

This is not the first time I have seen this, and it confuses me. I have a square butt 1905 5" Target with 4 screw frame serial in the 58K range. I have a letter somewhere, I think it shipped in 1906.

Sent from my SM-G930VL using Tapatalk

 

[bruce5781]

In addition to the square butt #22937 we spoke of via PM, I also have a round butt 5" Target 32-20 original nickle (mostly gone) #23785.