Help, portable generator opinions please

[TeamPB]

So it is obvious that electricity will become less reliable here in the peoples republic of Colorado. Where we live, wild fires are the ultimate multi-day weather event and we will be gone if we are under fire threat. So, in order to ride out a lesser 2 or 3 day power outage, it looks like a propane portable inverter generator should help to keep us comfortable.

I've read all the older threads in the forum on generators, but before we pull the trigger I thought I would ask. Have any of you used Champion or Westinghouse dual fuel portable generators? Reliability and quality matter the most, cost a distant second. Honda and Yamaha do not offer duel fuel or they would also be in the running.

Thanks in advance,
Bob & Marilyn

 

[A10]

I've used Champion, Honda, and Generac in the past. I'd rate the Champion second to the Honda. The Generac was more maintenance than the other two. None of mine were dual fuel though.

Have you calculated the size you need yet? I installed a switching mechanism with 6 circuits that allowed our furnace, kitchen, living area, and 2 bedrooms to be powered. Garage, one bedroom, and bathroom were without. My 9k generator had no problems.

 

[cololab]

I have a friend who has a Champion dual fuel inverter that has served him well. He runs his solely on gasoline, so I can't speak to the performance of the generator on propane.

I believe his Champion is a 9k starting / 8k running watts model (or something close to that) and he is able to selectively run several appliances at the same time. As such, he is able to keep food from perishing and maintain power to phones, computers, etc.

Clearly, individual needs will dictate the particular systems required.

 

[Doug M.]

Consult a good electrician about the install. Done improperly, the back feed can be very dangerous to utility workers.

I loathe propane and our RV will be all diesel and electric, with a huge alternator, solar, and a diesel generator as a fall back using good sized batteries.

 

[oldbrownhat]

Reliability and quality matter the most, cost a distant second

If you have other diesel gear, a diesel genny and a steel storage tank might be a worthwhile investment and fuel storage is less of a problem than gas. Yanmar make good ones.

Whatever you get, and depending what you need to run, make sure you get one that provides pure sine wave AC as a lot of modern equipment doesn't like "dirty" AC.

I have an old Onan marine diesel (fitted with a rad). No automatic switch-over and only 6kW but between it and the whole-house battery backup I've kept the condensing boiler/HW radiators and applicances running during a couple of power outages, one of which was 84 hours during an ice storm.

 

[gjgalligan]

Reading comprehension not very good today.
Only 1 response actually addressed the question asked.

 

[djohns6]

No experience with the Westinghouse units but I've heard a lot of positive comments on the Champions .

 

[Alton]

With you being in Colorado I would trust Gas over propane due to the cold temps. Propane can and will freeze. I had that problem back when we had 9 degrees a few years back and yes in San Antonio Texas. You can buy safety kits for your panel that locks out your main breaker before being able to energize your back feed breaker. I like Invertor generators much more than regular generators, quieter and safer power for electronics. Look at the motor each brand uses

 

[NYlakesider]

With you being in Colorado I would trust Gas over propane due to the cold temps. Propane can and will freeze. I had that problem back when we had 9 degrees a few years back and yes in San Antonio Texas. You can buy safety kits for your panel that locks out your main breaker before being able to energize your back feed breaker. I like Invertor generators much more than regular generators, quieter and safer power for electronics. Look at the motor each brand uses

Heck I live in the mountains of northern NY and I have run my Propane generator and everything else at temps that were close to or were at -30F. Cooking stove, furnace, hot water, dryer. no problems. We have a 500Gal above ground tank, but its far from portable!

 

[Alton]

Must have heat trace on your lines?

 

[FlyFish]

What's important is not the freezing point of propane (i.e., when it turns from liquid to solid) - that's minus 306 degrees F. What you care about is the boiling point (when it becomes a gas and can run your appliances). That's about minus 44 degrees F. The record low temperature for Colorado is -61 F, recorded in the unincorporated community of Maybell in 1985. It's never been close to -44 in the Denver area.

 

[NYlakesider]

Must have heat trace on your lines?

No, and neither does anyone else up here that I know of.. The propane comes into my genny at about a foot about ground elevation, that is also the same height it enters the house!

 

[chief38]

AFAIK, both the brands you mentioned are Chinese made generators. Probably less expensive & less durable however they still might fill your needs if you don't use it too often or run it too hard.

Generac makes an American made generator line that doesn't come in dual fuels from the factory however they are convertible most of the time with a simple adapter kit. Yes, more expensive and you will have to buy a conversion kit for a few hundred, but they are made much beefier and are rated to last 50,000 hours of run time as compared to the normal 5,000 hours the cheaper units are made to last. Not trying to spend your money and if the cheaper Chinese units fill your needs, I'd get the one with the best warranty and best customer support.

Honda's are excellent, however for a meaningful size you will spend stupid money! I don't think Honda's are dual fuel either but again, can probably be converted.

Important: When sizing up the wattage output of any generator, realize several things. First is you should never run any generator at more than 50% of its load rating. Secondly, propane and natural gas burn at a less efficient rate then gasoline and will have to work harder to provide the same output. Third, buy what you need but keep in mind a generator model that is too large will burn precious fuel at a higher burn rate. Getting fuel in an emergency is sometimes an issue!

 

[ladder13]

I like Generac but be careful as there are America made and Chinese made. There is a letter or letters added to one or the other to identify which is which. I forgot what that is though.

Buy the AMERICAN one.

 

[TeamPB]

Thank you all, so much!

I asked for opinions, so any and every bit of knowledge and experience is appreciated. All the information I can find elsewhere is really just ad copy.

Spend my money, buying American and buying once, is better than thinking I "saved" $500.

Please keep the comments coming.

Thanks!

 

[glowe]

You asked about portable generators and I have had one since 2010. Still in perfect running condition and had to use it just last month. It is a Troybuilt 8000W (13,000W peak) and I would not go any smaller. When we bought our last home, I had an electrician install an outside 200Volt plug. It was ran into our main panel by adding a circuit breaker. It is made live by using a manual lockout devise in the panel. In order to turn on the outside outlet, you have to shut off the main breaker to prevent back-feeding when the power comes back on. The electrician also provided a 10 foot cord with proper plugs to connect my generator and outlet. Once plugged in, I just start up the generator and find it to run the whole house if you do not use the range or dryer.. We have a well and it runs that plus the home. Properly cared for, I found these generators will last for a very long time, since they are rarely used. I do start them up every two months and keep the battery on a tender when not in use. The gas tank has a shutoff which I turn off while running the generator so that the carb runs dry each time I start it up.

 

[ameridaddy]

I'd use gasoline or diesel inverter over propane, because you have more gen/inverter buying options, better BTU/gallon and with a preservative in non-ethanol gasoline, you can store for up to two years enough fuel to run your house for a couple of weeks.
Ideally, you'd have natural gas and not have to deal with fuel tanks or gas cans to keep running.
I bought a 7.6kW Honda inverter and love it. An inverter not only provides power suitable for electronics, but also throttles back to idle or near idle for better fuel economy during low load periods. Freezing rain and hurricanes cause most of our outages, and I've run my house on the Honda up to 22 days, although in that instance, I did have to go out and refill my gas cans after about ten days.
Every 18 months, I feed the gas into my cars and refresh my supply.

 

[cherrypointmarine]

We have a Westinghouse dual fuel 12,500 generator . We bought 2 100 gal propane tanks and had the fill valves changed so they can be refilled via a truck . Then we had an electrician put in a plug and interface so we just plug in a lead from the generator to the plug . We also bought 2 portable a/c units so we're pretty well set up . With everything I think we have like $2500 or less in our setup . Plus when we leave the next owners are set up to hook up a generator .

 

[Golddollar]

Have you calculated the size you need yet? I installed a switching mechanism with 6 circuits that allowed our furnace, kitchen, living area, and 2 bedrooms to be powered. Garage, one bedroom, and bathroom were without. My 9k generator had no problems.

Generac has a calculation program on its web site to determine the size of the generators you will need. I have a pretty typical 3 bedroom 2 bathroom house and I needed a 22KW generator to give me whole house service.

 

[chief38]

I like Generac but be careful as there are America made and Chinese made. There is a letter or letters added to one or the other to identify which is which. I forgot what that is though.

Buy the AMERICAN one.

The Generac units imported to sell in Home Depot, Lowes, Costco, Walmart, BJ's, Hardware stores, etc. are the Chinese made units manufactured to Generac spec's and designed to run 5,000 hours. Their industrial, commercial & contractor grade units are made in the USA and are rated for 50,000 runs hours. Over the years I have had a few commercial Generac units and they always performed perfectly! No issues at all. For light ocassional use, even the Chinese units might be enough, it just depends on how long they have to continuously run for. I personally avoid Chinese goods to the best of my ability.

We now have a fully automated Generac whole house standby unit that is 22K and 200 Amps. Runs our entire house, 6 1/2 tons of AC, pool, hot tub, the whole enchilada and is hooked up to an endless natural gas supply.

 

[chief38]

Generac has a calculation program on its web site to determine the size of the generators you will need. I have a pretty typical 3 bedroom 2 bathroom house and I needed a 22KW generator to give me whole house service.

For the size home you have you probably could have done nicely with a 18K and if you have a pool and or hot tub a 20K unit, but the 22K's are actually more popular and only a hundred or so dollars more. The 22K will not even break a sweat for you size home. They are GREAT units!

 

[ladder13]

In reality, just to get by, you don't need much. For years I ran a gas powered pull start 5500 watt generator. I was on well water with an oil burner. It powered both of those, a refrigerator and a couple outlets.Heat running water and a fridge, enough for short periods. With a transfer switch.
Did ok for a number of years with just that. Does one need a hot tub heated and driveway lights on?
The pain in the butt was to go outside and start the generator each time the power went out and then go back out when the power was restored. Yeah, but it worked for a few years.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Reading comprehension not very good today.
Only 1 response actually addressed the question asked.

Don't forget to include your post in that statement.

 

[SMSgt]

Seems no one can tough it out anymore. My 5500W gasoline portable makes life bearable when the hurricanes try to make it unbearable. It all depends on your expectations.

 

[mick1213]

I managed 5 days after Hurricane Sally with a 1400 watt gen. It ran the fridge, a couple of fans, tv, wifi. Used about 7 gallons of gasoline. My choice. I don't like to store large volumes of gasoline due to risk of fire nor do I enjoy trying to find gasoline after a storm. I do have a 5000 watt gen with an lp conversion and a 120 gallon tank but managed ok with that 1400. Everyones needs or requirements are different.

 

[anoblefox]

We also had a Westinghouse dual fuel 12,500 generator but have since gave it to my cousin, it was/is a very nice unit.

 

[A10]

Seems no one can tough it out anymore. My 5500W gasoline portable makes life bearable when the hurricanes try to make it unbearable. It all depends on your expectations.

For us the issue was food preservation. I've had the experience of cleaning out refrigerators after 3 days of power outage and it's not a lot of fun, not to mention the waste. I would be very upset if we lost power to the freezer.

 

[chief38]

In reality, just to get by, you don't need much. For years I ran a gas powered pull start 5500 watt generator. I was on well water with an oil burner. It powered both of those, a refrigerator and a couple outlets.Heat running water and a fridge, enough for short periods. With a transfer switch.
Did ok for a number of years with just that. Does one need a hot tub heated and driveway lights on?
The pain in the butt was to go outside and start the generator each time the power went out and then go back out when the power was restored. Yeah, but it worked for a few years.

In general, I do agree with your assessment.

That said, where we live now I consider AC an absolute must, not an option. When we lived up North, yes the AC was very nice but we could get by for a few weeks without it by using fans. Here down South, no way!

Does one need to power up a pool and a hot tub during a power outage? Maybe not essential, however if a pool does not filter and sanitize the water for two weeks or so it will wind up like a green swamp. That would have to be remedied by massive chemical treatments or by draining it and refilling. So maybe not exactly essential, much more practical in the long run.

I'll be 71 in a few months and I would like to enjoy my life, my creature comforts and my home as long and as best as possible. Our Generac 22K whole house standby unit was expensive (no argument there) but it's a buy once - cry once deal. I also never want to worry about a closed up house soaring to super high temperatures and high humidity if we are not home for a few weeks. Mold and mildew is not a pretty thing to come home to!

When buying a generator of any type, much thought and figuring should be done before actually buying one. One should also be realistic about how they want to live for a few weeks without electricity. Of course a generator's reliability, service support and longevity are important things to consider.

I am unfamiliar with other brands as I have always owned a Generac of some sort, but I can and will unequivocally state, Generac's 24/7/365 hot line is incredibly helpful - even on Christmas Eve! They are a US based support team, speak our lingo, are incredible knowledgable and helpful. They have walked me through whatever concerns I've ever encountered. They also answer their phone lines quickly - I've never spent more than a couple of minutes on hold.

 

[ladder13]

In general, I do agree with your assessment.

That said, where we live now I consider AC an absolute must, not an option. When we lived up North, yes the AC was very nice but we could get by for a few weeks without it by using fans. Here down South, no way!

Does one need to power up a pool and a hot tub during a power outage? Maybe not essential, however if a pool does not filter and sanitize the water for two weeks or so it will wind up like a green swamp. That would have to be remedied by massive chemical treatments or by draining it and refilling. So maybe not exactly essential, much more practical in the long run.

I'll be 71 in a few months and I would like to enjoy my life, my creature comforts and my home as long and as best as possible. Our Generac 22K whole house standby unit was expensive (no argument there) but it's a buy once - cry once deal. I also never want to worry about a closed up house soaring to super high temperatures and high humidity if we are not home for a few weeks. Mold and mildew is not a pretty thing to come home to!

When buying a generator of any type, much thought and figuring should be done before actually buying one. One should also be realistic about how they want to live for a few weeks without electricity. Of course a generator's reliability, service support and longevity are important things to consider.

I am unfamiliar with other brands as I have always owned a Generac of some sort, but I can and will unequivocally state, Generac's 24/7/365 hot line is incredibly helpful - even on Christmas Eve! They are a US based support team, speak our lingo, are incredible knowledgable and helpful. They have walked me through whatever concerns I've ever encountered. They also answer their phone lines quickly - I've never spent more than a couple of minutes on hold.

You make a good point. I was only trying to get thru the current situation.
Now I have a whole house NG unit.

 

[oldbrownhat]

For us the issue was food preservation. I've had the experience of cleaning out refrigerators after 3 days of power outage and it's not a lot of fun, not to mention the waste. I would be very upset if we lost power to the freezer.

This was why my gf north of you in Bellingham put in an automatic 13k NG Generac. Some idjit took out a power pole at 3am and although "only" 27 hours w/o power, she had to throw out a lot of spoiled food. No outages since, but as long as she has gas, she's good.