HELP: Preparing the gun for a big match

[Arthury]

I thought I prepared myself and the gun well for the state match by doing the following:

1. Tested different ammo, decide on one and stick to it for range practice and for the match
2. Tested all mags at the range and take the good ones to the match
3. clean and lube the pistol thoroughly before the match
4. attended several local matches

Well, at the state match, I got bitten pretty badly. My SW1911PC failed.

The piece of metal that sits between the slide-lock and the thumb-safety popped out and disappeared during the match. I did not even know when it happened.

Then, the slide started to lock on alternate rds. I had to rack it and get it going. It locked up again soon after that. Note that mag still have rds in there.

It deteriorated to a state where it slide-locked on every rd. I stepped aside to the safe area to re-oil it and it did not help much. After 2-3 rds, it went back to locking after every rd.

Note that this behavior occurred after only about 70+ rds with a clean pistol to begin with. I usually shoot 150-250 rds at the range per session without oiling and no such problems occurred. I have put slightly over 1,000 rds thru this pistol before this happened.

Question:

1. How do you guys prep your gun before a big match so that these things don't happen?
2. What exactly is that missing metal piece (picture attached) used for? I am guessing it is related to thumb-safety since without it, it is not functioning well

 

[Dragon88]

That part that disappeared is the plunger tube. When it flew off it took the plunger spring assembly with it. With these parts gone, the slide stop and thumb safety have no tension applied to them and would be very unpredictable, as you experienced first hand. The only way to prevent something like this is to buy a better quality 1911, and even then, stuff happens.

 

[Arthury]

Thanks for identifying the part and the related parts that flew off.

This gun is a SW1911 Performance Center product. How much better can it get by going to another brand? Do you happen to know that SW1911PC gun have a history of failures?

Actually, I did not see a similar component in SA TRP or the Kimber Gold Combat. Is this plunger unique to SW1911?

 

[Dragon88]

No, I'm sure the SW1911PC is a very well built gun. It's just that you don't have the track record of owning an Ed Brown, Wilson, etc. I love S&W, but there is a history of stupidly simple things being wrong on standard and even Performance Center guns. They are well built, but seem to lack the fine attention to detail that you get with other 1911 options. It is not surprising to me in the least that you have parts flying off of your PC 1911.

Then again, S&Ws customer service is second to none, and I'm sure they will fix your gun quickly. But it's kind of that vicious cycle that a small percentage of new S&W owners experience. Most of these guns wouldn't have to be sent in at all if they were done right the first time.

The plunger tube and plunger spring assembly are common to all 1911s.

 

[Arthury]

No, I'm sure the SW1911PC is a very well built gun. It's just that you don't have the track record of owning an Ed Brown, Wilson, etc.

I would have to pay 2-3 times more than the SW1911PC to get a low-end Wilson.

[...]

They are well built, but seem to lack the fine attention to detail that you get with other 1911 options. It is not surprising to me in the least that you have parts flying off of your PC 1911.

And, it has to happen right in the middle of my state level championship. Can't believe why didn't it happen during the first 1,000 rds at the range.

It's pretty aggravating having to spend all these money on the gun, ammo, fees for matches, not to mention the time and effort ... absolutely unbelievable!

 

[Dragon88]

I definitely understand your frustration, and I hope it doesn't turn you off to S&W. Take a look at Kimber or top-end Springfields. I'm not saying either are equivalent to top tier 1911s, but I've never had parts fly off of my Kimber.... *shrug* Heck, my beat up, used Ultra Carry II is probably the most accurate semi-auto I own.

 

[MKT]

Actually, it is during a big match that things like this will happen...Murphey and all. My first trip to the Nationals, mid Match 4, I sheared the hammer nose. Happened again the following year right after Match 1. Now I change the hammer nose on my open class revolver immediatelt before the Nationals.

Now I have never lost a plunger tube off a 1911 but like anything mechanical it can happen. That small tube is staked to the frame and it could work loose. Since your gun is a PC gun it should be covered under the lifetime warranty, call to get a shipping label and let the PC shop install a new tube and replace the missing internals. It won't cost you anything and you'll probably not lose one again.

What type of match were you shooting?

 

[growr]

The problem with your plunger tube is in it's design and origin. Remember that they are staked on...the only manufacturer that I know of that the plunger tube is integral to the frame is the new Ruger.
This problem can happen with Colts, Kimbers, Springfield Armory's, Wilson's. Ed Brown's, etc.
Mind you, it does not happen often, but if the peening of the stakes inside the frame is not drawn up tight it can and does happen.
This is NOT a S&W problem but a 1911 problem.
I DO know how you feel as I once broke 3 1911's in one USPSA match when I lived in Idaho Falls.......the club awarded me their hard luck trophy....a blue trainer 1911 and was told to TRY and break this one!
You did all of the right things......things happen when we start to race them just like race cars....
Don't let it get to you.
Randy
PS. I also learned to carry a spare gun when going to major matches....

 

[Arthury]

Actually, it is during a big match that things like this will happen...Murphey and all. My first trip to the Nationals, mid Match 4, I sheared the hammer nose. Happened again the following year right after Match 1. Now I change the hammer nose on my open class revolver immediatelt before the Nationals.

Good to know that things like these do happen.

Now I have never lost a plunger tube off a 1911 but like anything mechanical it can happen. That small tube is staked to the frame and it could work loose. Since your gun is a PC gun it should be covered under the lifetime warranty, call to get a shipping label and let the PC shop install a new tube and replace the missing internals. It won't cost you anything and you'll probably not lose one again.

What is holding this plunger tube to the frame? If it is 2 stakes poking thru 2 holes, may be the holes are a little out of spec and that's why the plunger popped out so easily.
In short, what is there to prevent it from popping out again?

What type of match were you shooting?

I was at a state level IDPA championship.

 

[Harrison]

Buy an STI they are built from the gound up for competition shooting. You will probably see more STI 1911s being shot in IPSC matches than almost any other, and they tend not to break very easily. As for cost, if you are going to compete in other than local club matchs, cost is not a real consideration, quality of workmanship and reliability is. A quality reliable pistol is not inexpensive. The top competitors are not doing it on the cheap.

 

[Arthury]

1911 design flaw ?

The problem with your plunger tube is in it's design and origin. Remember that they are staked on...

This seems like a design flaw, then. Why is there so much press and books calling the 1911 the most reliable combat gun? If this were to happen in the field, the FBI HRT and the LAPD SWAT guys would get killed. Are there something different in the Govn't guns? Did they lock their plunger-tube stakes on the inside?

 

[growr]

The plunger tubes protrude slightly past the inside wall of the frame and then with a special staking tool the stakes are peened over much like a rivot.The problem you had doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

Yes, the 1911 platform is quite reliable and armed forces for over 100 years have trusted it as I do.

Smith will certainly take good care of you on this and rest assured that you will never have another problem with the plunger tube again.

Nothing man made is infallible, the difference is how the maker takes care of it for you and Smith & Wesson WILL take good care of you.

Randy

 

[Arthury]

I also see that some experts are saying the rear stake of the plunger tube is the one that usually breaks off. Is the plunger tube made of forged steal or just a MIM/cast?

 

[Arthury]

The plunger tubes protrude slightly past the inside wall of the frame and then with a special staking tool the stakes are peened over much like a rivot.The problem you had doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

Yes, the 1911 platform is quite reliable and armed forces for over 100 years have trusted it as I do.

Smith will certainly take good care of you on this and rest assured that you will never have another problem with the plunger tube again.

Nothing man made is infallible, the difference is how the maker takes care of it for you and Smith & Wesson WILL take good care of you.

Randy

Thanks, Randy, for the detailed and helpful description. I'm getting a better picture now of the internals.

I have already written to S&W and I am pretty sure they will send me a FedEx mailing supply to get the gun back to their smiths.

 

[growr]

When mine broke in my Springfield Armory it was the rear stake like was mentioned,which is more common than the entire assembly breaking off.
If I were to be preparing my gun for a major match I would inspect the stakes for my own piece of mind.

I don't know the numbers but I would bet that it is less than 1 in a 250,000 on a stake failure.

Welcome to the wacky world of competitive shooting!

Randy

 

[glwt06]

Hi Aurthury,

My competition experience is limited to local 3 gun matches, but as soon as I could afford to, I bought a matching back up gun. I think someone already mentioned this. Very frustrating to practice, travel and pay an entrance fee and have a gun go down on the first stage. Lots of wasted time and money. I don't know if the league your shooting in would allow for it, but it is worth the expense.

Good luck,

Paul

 

[haggis]

I also learned to carry a spare gun when going to major matches....

As far as match preparedness, that is rule #1. Also carry spares for other critical things, like magazines. And remember rule #2 - Murphey lives!

While this will probably never happen again, the emergency drill for a right-handed shooter is:

• Right thumb on the safety to hold it down.
• Left thumb on the slide stop to hold it down.

Handy to know if the next time it's more than a trophy on the line.

Buck

 

[H Richard]

I read a book on match shooting 25 years ago, and it mentioned everything you list in your prep, but one additional one. After cleaning your gun thoroughly go out and shoot a couple magazine fulls through it to settle every thing down and look for problems.

 

[growr]

I don't know any shooting discipline that would NOT allow replacement of a disabled or broken gun as long as it is the same caliber and type. If you shoot a 1911, carry a 1911 backup. Doesn't have to be the same mfg. but that is nice. As long as it performs in the same manner and feels pretty much the same go for it!
When I am using my Springfield Armory 1911 National Match in a match, my SA Loaded or my Dan Wesson Pointman Major are usually in back up.

Randy

 

[MKT]

Don't mail a letter then wait for a shipping label, call S&W in the morning and talk to the PC Shop. Explain the situation and they'll send you a shipping label. You will need to include a brief letter with the gun explaining what is wrong (even if it is plainly visible, also mention it is your competition gun). They usually get duty and competition guns repaired and back to you pretty quick.

My best round trip on a PC gun, called on Monday had the label on Wednesday, shipped to S&W on Thursday and had the gun back by Wednesday the following week. Mind you, this gun broke two weeks before the PPC Nationals and I received the repaired gun the day before I was leaving and the gun was shipped from CA to MA and back.