Help reloading 38 long colt

[Bassaro]

Hello all, I recently picked up a Colt 1901 in pretty good condition. I am a reloader and did not fear the 38 long colt round and dove in head first. Now the fun begins I plan on doing up this reloading project for as cheaply as possible. I plan to trim down 38 special cases but I can't find the trim length I will need for the long colt. What is it?

Also I believe that my barrel is a .357 barrel not the over sized bored barrels of the 1901s. I reached this theory by taking a standard gold dot 357 bullet I had and attempted to push it into both sides of the barrel (by hand not with a hammer) and found that the bullet would not easily fit into the barrel by hand. The fellow over at GAD told me to try this. Thoughts?

I plan to use HP-38 (which is the same as win 231) to work up my loads because that is what I have on hand. Does anybody have any loads using 231? I also plan on using 158gr plated bullets.

 

[arjay]

You'll need to drive a soft piece of lead through the barrelto get an idea of the bore size.Did you try dropping it through the cylinder?

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I haven't played with the .38 Long Colt for many years. Had an old D-frame Colt in that caliber, probably not as strong as your 1901 overall. My loading book shows that I used:

1. Cast 150 SWC, 2.4 grains Bullseye, small pistol primer.

2. 148 HBWC seated well out of the case mouth, 2.4 grains Bullseye, small pistol primer.

Case length has been given as 1.031" so a trim length of about 1.025 should be about right.

These were pretty mild loads, even in the little D-frame. I was using actual .38 Long Colt cases, so your cut-down .38 Special cases are likely to have reduced internal capacity and you'll need to work up your loads with some caution, as usual for such a project. I would probably start at about 15% below the bottom of the charts for .38 Special standard pressure loads. Lead bullets (cast or swaged) would be my preference (nothing you do with a .38 Long Colt will produce any hot rod performance, at least not with a reasonable level of safety).

Have fun!

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Hodgdon's 2013 loading magazine says : Starline Brass Trim 1.012", Federal 100 primer. 125 LRN HP-38 2.6 gr(638fps)-3.2 (&66 fps) OAL 1.400". 150 LRN HP-38 2.6 (631)-3.3 (777) OAL 1.390" I would buy Starline brass rather than the mess and volume problems. Ivan

 

[Bassaro]

Would there be a difference in volume? I thought 38 long colt was just a shorter 38 special and if I trimmed it to length it would be identical to a piece of brass head stamped 38 long colt.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Would there be a difference in volume? I thought 38 long colt was just a shorter 38 special and if I trimmed it to length it would be identical to a piece of brass head stamped 38 long colt.

Modern brass (by WW2 or earlier in most cases) features solid head construction rather than the earlier folded head method of extruded cases. Case walls tend to be thicker in general. I would expect modern .38 Special cases to have moderately lower internal capacities in general, although a very wide variety might also be expected.

The main reason I mentioned this is because anytime you reduce internal volume you can expect changes in powder burning rates and performance with any load. Caution is always the rule, but when working with altered cases or other components extra caution is called for.

 

[scooter123]

A couple of thins to consider.

First, you really need to determine the year of manufacture for your Colt. Because 1901 sits right smack at the transition between Black and Smokeless Powder. If your revolver was manufactured somewhere around 1915 or later you probably wont be facing any safety risks loading with Smokeless powder. If it's before 1915 further study should be done to determine if Colt actually "rated" this revolver as being suitable with Smokeless loads.

Second, Starline cases will likely feature near identical wall thicknesses and case head structure between the 38 Long Colt and 38 Special cases. So, a cut down 38 special will probably have the same internal volume as their 38 Long Colt case. So, I really don't see any risk to cutting down 38 special cases as long a suitable powder is used. However, it is going to be a LOT of work if you are using a standard case trimmer.

Final thoughts. High grade steels didn't really see any wide spread use in handguns until the 1930's. This means that anything made prior to about 1930 should be treated a bit gently. In addition copper jackets produce more wear on a barrel than plain lead and with the softer steels employed prior to the 1930's it's not really a good idea to use copper jacketed bullets in any handgun of that era. I would suggest that you load using lead bullets and use loads that produce velocities in line with the originals.

 

[rwsmith]

I see....

I see 1.031" for case length. (Wikipedia) I'll check SAAMI and if anything's different I'll get back.


Edit: SAAMI sez:

Case length = 1.035" - .020" (This kinda jives with the 1.031" I saw in Wikipedia). I'd trust what SAAMI said before Wikipedia.

COAL 1.305"-1.360" (max)

 

[mi2600]

Colt transitioned from original "heel" bullet to the more modern .357" bullet around 1901. Look inside your chambers. If there is no "step" then you can use modern bullets.

Loading data can be found online.

 

[rwsmith]

Good ole Lee tools

Second, Starline cases will likely feature near identical wall thicknesses and case head structure between the 38 Long Colt and 38 Special cases. So, a cut down 38 special will probably have the same internal volume as their 38 Long Colt case. So, I really don't see any risk to cutting down 38 special cases as long a suitable powder is used. However, it is going to be a LOT of work if you are using a standard case trimmer.

I chuck a Lee trimmer into my drill press and trim like nobody's business. The whole deal costs less than $15. I don't think Lee makes a 38 long colt length gage so you may have to use a shorter one and stop and measure when you get close. I see a .38 S&W gage cuts about .001" shorter than minimum.

 

[lebomm]

mi2600;
Did you maybe transpose the chamber specs ? It's been my impression that the straight-walled chamber was for the heel bullet (HB bullets needed), and the shouldered chamber was for the inside-lubricated bullets of the later ammunition (.357-.358 bore). I could be mistaken.

Larry

 

[Biggfoot44]

What Larry said in above post.

If an early style straight wall chamber , .38spl and even .357 mag brass will physically fit.

IF you do have an early spec gun intended for Heel based bullets , give a try to loading "normal" hollow base wadcutters (those being the only mass produced hollow based bullets even close to needed dia ). It will involve finding the multivariable sweet spot of pressure curve and bullet softness to expand the base enough to at least somewhat engage the rifling , but not blow out the skirts , all while keeping max pressure low. Best chances would be loading Black Powder , but presumably loading smokeless is your plan.

If that doesn't work out with the HB WC's , then either cast your own heel bullets ( with 20:1 or softer , avoid modern alloys w/ antimony ) , or from a specialty custom caster.

 

[muddocktor]

mi2600;
Did you maybe transpose the chamber specs ? It's been my impression that the straight-walled chamber was for the heel bullet (HB bullets needed), and the shouldered chamber was for the inside-lubricated bullets of the later ammunition (.357-.358 bore). I could be mistaken.

Larry

Yeah, I would have to go along with you too. A heeled bullet would have a straight wall chamber and an inside lubricated bullet will have the shoulder. If it were the other way, then all our modern revolvers wouldn't have the shoulder in the chambers of the cylinder on our centerfire pistols.

 

[DWalt]

1. If you don't have a step in the chamber (bored straight through) just use normal .38 Special brass untrimmed.
2. If .38 Special brass won't chamber completely, don't worry too much about case length. If it's a little shorter than 1.03, it will make no difference.
3. If you want, use .38 Short Colt ammunition or brass. It works fine.
4. You are not going to find any of the early baloon head brass. I'm amazed that ridiculous discussion about case capacity was even brought up. It makes absolutely no difference for light loads.
5. Hollow-based lead wadcutter bullets are always going to be the best choice no matter the bore diameter. The Minie Ball effect will take care of bullet expansion to fill the bore.
6. Stick to light loads. The Colt is far stronger than most give it credit for, but there is no point in pushing it. There have been incidents in which .357 Magnum loads have been fired in some of the old .38 LC Colts with bored-through chambers, and the guns didn't blow up. Staying under 3 grains of whatever fast propellant you want to use (Bullseye, 231/HP-38, AA#2, Red Dot, etc.) will be perfectly safe. In fact, any .38 Special starting load found in any manual will be perfectly safe for any bullet.

 

[David Sinko]

Have your revolver moonclipped and shoot an ICORE match with it. ICORE shooters love those "shorter than .38 Special" cartridges and they can give you all sorts of advice on load data and procedures.

Dave Sinko

 

[DWalt]

The .38 Short Colt is very popular among ICORE shooters for use in .38 Special revolvers as the fired short cases eject completely and positively for more rapid reloads. No shaking or plucking required. I think that's the main reason that the .38 SC is still with us. Plus you can fire it in .38 S&W revolvers, even though it is a bit smaller in diameter.

 

[mi2600]

My Bad!! The later style has the step because it shoots a smaller .357 bullet. I dug out my New Army's and found my error. I did see some evidence of partial circular marks in some early style chambers, but the later ones have a definite step.