HELP! SEND GUNS!

If England ever asked for me to donate one of my guns, I would be happy to send them a cricket bat.

OR......

I would be happy to send them a Colt AR-15 in trade for an Aston Martin Vantage S with the V-12 engine.
 
Britain's finest hour was in 1940...it has been down hill ever since.

I was working with two New Scotland Yard detectives and later two Crown Prosecution Service prosecutors quite a while back. I asked both groups (separated by about 1 month) if they had ever fired a weapon...all said NO. I took each pair in turn out to the range and had them fire a variety of handguns and long guns. The Detectives had a ball and we sent them home with souvenirs and photos.

When it came to the prosecutors and the Remington 870, the male prosecutor fired one slug and said he was done. I WISH I had a video camera at the time to record the lady prosecutor...she showed up to the range in a black mini-skirt, black knee high boots, a tight sweater with a plunging neckline highlighting her more than ample assets, and her blonde hair down around her shoulders. She fired about 20 shotgun slugs, laughing and having a great time. We next put her on the 1928 Thompson...that was a sight to behold!

I've had quite a few civilian Brits come over and shoot as well...except for that one prosecutor, they all enjoyed it tremendously and bemoaned the laws of their country.
 
And, when the war was over, and the populace no longer needed the guns for defense against the Hun, they were confiscated. And destroyed. Because guns are bad.

Some people just never learn do they?
 
It was a propaganda effort at the time, 1940, to get American public opinion on the side of the British. It was not a sure thing that America would not just sit out the war. Joseph Kennedy, as ambassador, said that England was done.

Firearms laws were not particularly stricter in the UK than in the U.S. at the time. Perhaps fewer people owned guns, but fewer had the economic ability or perceived need to. Hunting was not a sport for everyman in England and many of the urban poor, likely to buy a gun for protection, just could not easily afford one. The upper class liked it this way as they historically feared ending up like the French and later Russian aristocrats did in case of social revolution. (You could be sentenced to death for urging dissolution of the monarchy on through virtually the modern era.)

It was like collecting tin cans for the war effort. It makes people feel involved and makes for good propaganda, but does not really have much impact.

The British Army was indeed short of weapons in 1940, they left many of theirs in France when they evacuated their troops.

To be in the Home Guard, established after Dunkirk, you had to have fired three rounds from a rifle or shotgun. That was the training standard. They organized training days that amounted to range days.

Even in today's United States, relatively well armed, probably two out of three people do not own a firearm. Thus if we tried to arm everyone to fight the Martians, we too would have a huge deficit in firearms.

Fully automatic weapons were legal for ordinary folks until 1968 in England. At that point they had to be converted to semiauto only. Military style semi autos were legal until the 1980s, all long after WW2.

Many rifles, shotguns, and yes even handguns (blackpowder, historical, or Buntline style revolvers) can still be had, albeit with more paperwork and problems.

Those old ads you see were the work of British propagandists/intelligence agents in the United States. It was...well perhaps scam is too strong a word, but it was not the historical lesson that it is sometimes made out to be.
 
Even in today's United States, relatively well armed, probably two out of three people do not own a firearm. Thus if we tried to arm everyone to fight the Martians, we too would have a huge deficit in firearms.

If your Martians chose to land in rural Taylor County, Georgia, population about 10,000, they would be met within hours by a minimum of 3000 well armed citizens carrying ARs, AKs, SKSs, riot shotguns, and semi auto handguns. I would guess at least half would have newer ARs with multiple 30 round magazines. There would be a fair scattering of fully auto SMGs and machine pistols.

I can't speak for other states, but South Georgia could put 100,000 well armed, well supplied (speaking of small arms and ammo) people in the field right quick. Discipline and training might be a problem, but we do have a bunch of military tradition. A pretty formidable home guard.

edit: Ten minutes after I posted this, the Brown Truck dropped off a 250 round case of 2 3/4 inch 12 gauge buckshot at my back door. "Just in case."
 
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It was like collecting tin cans for the war effort. It makes people feel involved and makes for good propaganda, but does not really have much impact.


Those old ads you see were the work of British propagandists/intelligence agents in the United States. It was...well perhaps scam is too strong a word, but it was not the historical lesson that it is sometimes made out to be.

Sir Winston seems to disagree with your assessment.

Prime Minister Winston Churchill's book Their Finest Hour details the arrival of the shipments. Churchill personally supervised the deliveries to ensure that they were sent on fast ships, and distributed first to Home Guard members in coastal zones. Churchill thought that the American donations (p.418)were "entirely on a different level from anything we have transported across the Atlantic except for the Canadian division itself." Churchill warned an advisor that "the loss of these rifles and field-guns [if the transport ships were sunk by Nazi submarines] would be a disaster of the first order." He later recalled that "[w]hen the ships from America approached our shores with their priceless arms, special trains were waiting in all the ports to receive their cargoes." "The Home Guard in every county, in every town, in every village, sat up all through the night to receive them .... By the end of July we were an armed nation ... a lot of our men and some women had weapons in their hands."[81]
 
It's hard to say what role the donated small arms might have played if Sea Lion had not been called off.
 
Sir Winston seems to disagree with your assessment.

Prime Minister Winston Churchill's book Their Finest Hour details the arrival of the shipments. Churchill personally supervised the deliveries to ensure that they were sent on fast ships, and distributed first to Home Guard members in coastal zones. Churchill thought that the American donations (p.418)were "entirely on a different level from anything we have transported across the Atlantic except for the Canadian division itself." Churchill warned an advisor that "the loss of these rifles and field-guns [if the transport ships were sunk by Nazi submarines] would be a disaster of the first order." He later recalled that "[w]hen the ships from America approached our shores with their priceless arms, special trains were waiting in all the ports to receive their cargoes." "The Home Guard in every county, in every town, in every village, sat up all through the night to receive them .... By the end of July we were an armed nation ... a lot of our men and some women had weapons in their hands."[81]

I suspect that what the previous post meant was that the psychological warfare aspect of letting the Germans believe that the British populace was perhaps not so soft a target as they previously believed was far more effective at affecting the German plans than any tangible difference even a large number of firearms with limited training and ammo might have made if a land invasion had occured. And that the wording etc may also have been chosen to paint a more dire picture than was perhaps real in order to change the public opinion in the US toward our eventual participation.
 
I remember WW2 very well. Britain was getting hammered by the Nazi's. I saw the article in the Rifleman about sending guns to Britain. They had about disarmed them selves after WW1. They were broke after WW2 & lost all their possessions, India,etc. They may have destroyed many of the guns given to them but they sold a lot of them back to us later. Without our help there wouldn't be an England today.
 
About fifteen years ago at a gun show I found what was left of a Garand after a fire: barrelled receiver, gas cylinder, op rod, and sights, all frozen, scaly, and ugly. Inasmuch as I had quite a few take-off and worn M1 parts around, I thought that just maybe I could cobble up a wall hanger from the mess.

Short version is that, yes, I got things working fairly well, rounded up all the bits, sandblasted and matte blued all the metal; the CMP "repairable ($7) stock came out nicely, too. Under the crud were British proofs; the rear sight was one of the very early and rare "flush nut" types, and the serial number checked out to early 1940. It was one of those we sent over during this time, and came home again.

I had a friend make a nice glass-fronted oak display case for the old rifle and it hangs a few feet away now. Looks nice, too. While it will--unfortunately-- never be fired again, it's "been there and done that!"

Never say never.

http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_copybook.htm
 
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