Help with 45 Auto 185 LSWC, will not feed

[OCD1]

I have a box of 185gr LSWC that I bought a while back for next to nothing.
Loaded up 50 using data from Hodgdon (I called) and they said use the 180gr LFP data.
I used 5grs HP38 and OAL of 1.140.

Some of them feed but most jam on the feed ramp. I tried in a 1911, M&P45 and XD45.

Do they need to be shorter, longer? or what?

Here is a pic:

Thanks.

 

[Bugs100]

I would try them at 1.155.

 

[Joni_Lynn]

Try adjusting the overall length a bit.
It's possible your gun isn't going to work with this particular combination.
While not a 185, a couple of mine don't work very well on 200 lswc.

 

[smith crazy]

Never used those type of bullets.

Well, I have never used that light of a bullet in the 45ACP. It looks like a copy or actual H&G #130 though.

One of our forum members, Dale53, is a virtual professional with this bullet. He has cast and shot them for more years than I can remember. (Of course since I hit 50 several years ago, that really isn't that long! )

Are they soft enought to indent with your finger? I have had a bunch of trouble with bullets that were too soft in my 1911's even if they were round nose profile.

FWIW

 

[OCD1]

Well, I have never used that light of a bullet in the 45ACP. It looks like a copy or actual H&G #130 though.

One of our forum members, Dale53, is a virtual professional with this bullet. He has cast and shot them for more years than I can remember. (Of course since I hit 50 several years ago, that really isn't that long! )

Are they soft enought to indent with your finger? I have had a bunch of trouble with bullets that were too soft in my 1911's even if they were round nose profile.

FWIW

No, they are pretty hard. The actual brand is Magnus #801. I seem to remember when I first got them, I loaded some up and they did not feed in my Colt Commander as I had them to long. I pushed them down to what I have now and they worked.

Do you think making them a bit longer to have more of the main bullet be able to hit the ramp would help?

It's raining all day here so I can load some dummies and try them out.

 

[Recon]

Another thing you might check is your casemouth measurement. I use a taper crimp of .469".

 

[Wayne Dobbs]

Try them at 1.2 up to 1.25 and you should hit a sweet spot if your gun is capable of feeding them. Be aware that feeding blunt nosed 185 SWCs is a whole 'nother world than standard ACP bullets. Magazine lip dimensions (both width and release point) along with recoil spring rates can all play against you.

 

[Recon]

I checked the Hodgdon website and they do list an OAL of 1.140" but that's with a flat point which I think is a different bullet. They show an OAL of 1.195" with the jacketed LSWC which I believe is the same bullet design as what your loading.

I would suggest trying the 1.195" OAL and adjust from there.

Regards...

 

[Rule3]

Another thing you might check is your casemouth measurement. I use a taper crimp of .469".

I ran them through a Lee FC die. How do I measure this taper crimp of .469? Someone tried to explain it to me once but I do not remember. I only have a caliper no mic.

Also. I did some test rounds and measured them at 1.190. I can manually cycle them through my MP 45 and XD 45 so maybe I hit the magic length??

I think my post count is wrong, can we reset the forum again. How do we insert smilies here??

 

[shovelwrench]

Your crimp will only affect chambering.

That is an odd bullet contour, I'd bet they need to be longer, but you may not get them to work at all. And like stated earlier, your mags can have a lot to do with what type of bullet you can feed.

What brand of mag are you using?

 

[handgunner356]

I used the plated Berrys' 185 bullet like yours' and load them at 1.165" with good results, although all my guns do have ramped barrels.

 

[Skip Sackett]

?

Your crimp will only affect chambering.

Well, that isn't a 100% rule. If the case isn't closed enough it will affect chambering. It will also affect it if it is a roll crimp. The extra "bump" will cause feeding failures.

Just wanted to make that point.

 

[Dale53]

Actually, that contour is an old famous target bullet, the H&G #130. I have shot tens of thousands of those as well as the #68 H&G. The #130, as you can see, is a short nose round. The #68 is the "long nosed round". The #68 has a much better reputation for feeding well. However, if your 1911 platform is set up correctly by a REALLY good pistolsmith, it will feed either without failure.

For the 1911 platform, to properly determine the seating depth with any bullet, remove the barrel from the pistol. Hold it vertically, and drop a loaded round into the chamber. The proper length is when the base of the case is flush with the barrel hood. That way the bullet supports the round during ignition for consistent ignition.

I have two 1911's built up by the same 'smith - Harold Johnson. They will feed empty cases (REALLY) so they have never had a bobble for me with the #130.
My Kimber CDP II Ultra Carry will also feed this bullet (right out of the box). That was a bit of a surprise to me but a PLEASANT surprise.

If you cannot find a solution, either get the pistols to a really good pistolsmith (we are fortunate as we have a good one locally as Harold retired) to solve the problem. Or, you can change bullets...

You really need to have a micrometer to measure the taper crimp. It is necessary to measure the diameter at the very end of the case mouth (with a bullet seated) - the common suggestion (and I concur) is to run it at .469"-.470". It is necessary to have the crimp sufficient to absolutely eliminate the possibility of deep seating when a round is chambered. On the other hand, too much of a good thing and you will actually damage the bullet.

I size my bullets at .452" and crimp at .470". I also stay away from Remington Cases as I have found, over the years, that they are too thin for a secure load (thin cases reduce case neck tension). My preference is for military brass or Starline.

FWIW

Dale53

 

[Recon]

How do I measure this taper crimp of .469?

Take your caliper and set it at .469" and use the lock screw. With the caliper set simply apply it to the casemouth and see if the case will just begin to go into the space provided.

You only need to have the very tip of the casemouth measure the diameter you've chosen.

Sounds like your making good progress...

Regards...

 

[Jim Watson]

Dale is right.

Your picture shows approximately the standard amount of SWC shoulder above the case mouth. You cannot go much longer without it keeping the round from chambering, you cannot go much shorter without getting it at or below the case mouth... which would not help since it is a very short bullet anyhow.

The gun would likely have to be specifically ramped and throated for that bullet profile by somebody used to setting up bullseye target pistols. Not worth it for one box. Take your loss and get some roundnose or copies of the longer nosed H&G #68.

 

[TSQUARED]

OCD1,
That's a very blunt profile bullet. I use the old 185 gr. Star LSWCHP which has the external profile of a 200 gr. SWC. I have found that the base to shoulder length is more critical than OAL since the OAL is dependent on the bullet profile as well as weight. I use a base to bullet's shoulder length of 0.935".
Most 45 ACP barrels that shoot LSWC's reliably have been smoothed at the rear to insure proper feeding. I have used the 185 gr. Star LSWCHP in a S&W 945, a Dan Wesson PM, a Sig 220 Sport, SA 1911 trophy Match, Norinco with Jarvis barrel and an old Colt National Match 1911.

 

[Houndog2]

FWIW, My Commander has seen thousands of bullets with that contour and will fail to feed 50% of the time if not taper crimped. Taper crimping gives 100% reliability in that gun.

I shot some of those type rounds the other day in my XD 45 with zero problems. I loaded some 185 grain Hornady jacketed SWC and for kicks did not run them through the taper die, I was feeling lazy and just wanted to hurry up and go shoot.

3rd one hung up in the Colt. Went back in and ran them through the TC die (Lee) and proceeded to fire about a hundred with ZERO failures.

When I first started loading 45 it made me crazy trying to figure what the problem was. Since that time I have had so little feeding problems it's not even worth thinking about.

There are NO bullet profiles that fail in any 45 I have had ( bunches) when a proper taper crimp is applied.

Hope this helps.

HD2

 

[Rule3]

Take your caliper and set it at .469" and use the lock screw. With the caliper set simply apply it to the casemouth and see if the case will just begin to go into the space provided.

You only need to have the very tip of the casemouth measure the diameter you've chosen.

Sounds like your making good progress...

Regards...

OK, I did that and my "dummy"rounds fit so I guess I taper crimped them just enough. As I mentioned I made the OAL 1.190 ( a little longer then I had) and they will fit my M&P 45 and XD 45. I still need to cycle them through my DW Pointman and Sig, if they feed in those, I will try some loaded versions. When those bullets are gone, they are GONE! I only bought them as they were $12 for 500 (clearance) I'll just go back to regular RN or FP.

I guess I should have titled my post "will not Chamber"

As always, thanks everyone for your assistance. Aint this place great?! Even better with the new forum software.

 

[shovelwrench]

If your still getting a feeding/chambering malfunction, get a picture of it when it is jammed.

 

[HAWKEYE10]

I shot that bullet when I was shooting Bulls Eye compition. I 1911's a gunsmith needs to alter feed ramp. At least for a Colt 70 series. Its a very acurate bullet. I loaded it with 3.5gr. of Bullseye. Don