Help with a 44 Magnum Load, PLEASE!

[STORMINORMAN]

Found some bullets from long ago (before I ever had a 44 Magnum: my pistol is a Ruger SuperBlackHawk Hunter.)

The bullets are 300gr Federal lead WFPGC. Cases will be new Starline with Remington Magnum LPPs. Anticipated OAL is 1.640".

The plethora of variations in so-called "Published Load Data" for 300gr bullets is downright baffling! Without getting into too much detail loads for the exact same bullets at the exact same OAL with over a FULL GRAIN of ADDITIONAL powder charge can vary 125fps, but in the WRONG DIRECTION!

i.e. Hornady 300gr XTP at 1.600" using 20.1gr H110 = 1200 fps per Hornady, the bullet manufacturer. The same bullet, same 1.600" but with 19.0gr of H110 = 1325fps(?) per R. Lee.

This hard cast gas checked bullet most closely resembles the Lyman #429650 (a discontinued SWC) for which there is LYMAN data, 18.5gr H110 but at 1.700" (!) but only 1036fps.

I only have 18 of these, which are probably enough to last me a lifetime (unless a herd of elephants or a sloth of Griz decides to invade the Ocean Shores peninsula) if I don't burn some up in load development. Don't want to wienie-out (Buffalo Bore's 305gr version is 1300 & Grizzly's at 1400fps!) TOO much, though...

So... How does 20.0gr of H110 @ 1.640" (OR 19.0gr of IMR 4227) sound?

I appreciate your kind consideration in advance!

Cheers!

 

[6string]

This is a tall order!

-First, your lead bullet, while matching in weight, is going to behave differently than the jacketed Hornady bullet. Besides the lead vs jacketed issue, what are the diameters of the two?
-Second, the discrepancy in velocity between the Hornady and Lee data, even to the point of seeming contradiction, is not unheard of. There are so many variables: barrel length & internal dimensions, primers, cases, air temperature, etc., even the internal dimensions of the loading dies!

My recommendation would be to compile as many 300 gr. loads using H110 as you can find. Gather as much details as you can regarding as many variables as you can. Then use your best judgement.

One question: What will you be using these bullets and load for?

Hunting? Shooting paper at the range?
My point being, if it’s just for range fun, who cares what number shows up on a chronograph? Just load for safety…. And fun (in that order )

 

[rwsmith]

Well, you have a Super BlackHawk......

...that can take tougher loads than regular .44 Magnum pistols. The Hodgdon site recommends a max load of 20 gr. of IMR 4227 and a max load of 19 gr. of H110. Being a Blackhawk you shouldn't have a problem with 20 gr. of H110 or 20 of IMR4227.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

These would be used only in the most extreme situations (think as used by Lord Humungus in Mad Max 2: The Road Warrier) where paper would not be involved...

Maybe an engine block?

Cheers!

 

[mtgianni]

The key here is bearing surface not weight. The friction will happen as the bullet travels down the bbl. If bullet A weighs 300 gr and 90 % of it is bearing surface it will have more friction than a SWC bullet B with 78% bearing surface.
Do they take up the same amount of room in the case? Compressed powder burns differently than powder with headroom.

Lastly make sure that published data was checked with similar barrel lengths. A 14" bbl will give different results than a 4" or 8" one.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Well, Im loading it 0.040" longer and the WFNGC (0.825" in length) has 3 lube grooves vs. none in the XTP and one on the 429650 SWC...

Cheers!

 

[mikld]

For many years I have used "when in doubt, go with the lightest listed load". Some loads cav vary greatly from lab to lab, lot to lot. Nobody is gonna call you a sissy for going light...

 

[Model19man]

The thing I have always noticed when using Hodgdon 110 or W296 (same powder) is the loud report and tremendous flash. IMR 4227 is notable for neither of those things. I would use 19 grains of IMR4227 - it will easily fit in a 44 Magnum case below your bullet.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Well, due to a veritable paucity of comments (Thanks to those who opined!) I decided (since discretion is the better part of valor?) to review the pages of notes I assembled prior to this thread and to remeasure everything...

This bullet is 0.850" long and measures from the front 0.320" to the crimp groove, putting 0.530" of penetration into my 1.280" Starline case: this leaves exactly 0.750" of case volume available with an anticipated OAL of 1.600".

There is a similar Rimrock 305gr bullet, but it measures 0.901" in length, has a greater penetration into 44 Mag brass of 0.558" with 0.343" projecting: this would explain why there are significantly longer OALs (as in beyond the SAMMI max) for these 300+gr bullets in the so-called "published load data" sources. My bullet actually has a greater amount of case volume available (1.280 - 0.558 = 0.722" vs. 0.750").

rwsmith's kind concurrence and advisement leads me to this compromise: I've loaded 6 rounds, one each of H110 @ 19.0, 19.5 & 20.0gr, and one each of IMR 4227 @ 19.0, 19.5 & 20.0gr @ 1.605" with a substantial crimp. I'll shoot these and determine what to do with my remainging 12... I will report back.

Since herds of pachyderms and ursine sloths are neither likely nor anticipated, a dozen ought'a do it for me...?

Cheers!

P.S. I guess I could always spring for some of the Rimrock 305's but I have a box of 270gr DEEP CURLS still to play with!

 

[Paul105]

For information purposes only:

Note temperatures -- higher temps will increase velocity and PRESSURE.


The 1.565 OAL was in 44 SPECIAL cases crimped in bottom crimp grove.
.

.
The above used the cast bullet shown on the right.
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Far left middle of target.
.

Paul

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Paul: Thanks, so much! Puts my mind (what's left of it!) further at rest...

Cheers!

P.S. 19.2gr of H110 with a 310gr bullet IN 44 Special brass!!!!!

 

[Yendor357]

Get a Garmin Xero. They’re about $600. Then you know what is going on. Without a chrono, you’re just guessing.

 

[Paul105]

Paul: Thanks, so much! Puts my mind (what's left of it!) further at rest...

Cheers!

P.S. 19.2gr of H110 with a 310gr bullet IN 44 Special brass!!!!!

.
A little background. Brian Pearce's article http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/Brian Pearce on the 44 Special.pdf

The article led me to do a bit of experimenting with my FA97 .44 special (Brian P rated the FA897 capable of .44 mag pressure). I was using it as a "walking the dog" gun in Elk country during the firearms season and was curious about the 300 gr in .44 special (also ran a 325gr WLNGC - which was extremely accurate in the M97). The 325 WLNGC in 44 SPECIAL cases allowed this long nosed bullet to function in my Rossi M92 carbine. I still have most of the original boxes of both - .

CERTAINLY NOT RECOMMENDED.

Here's the gun:
.

.
.
PS I've shot a bunch of the 310gr Lee over 20.0gr H110/W296 (in 44 MAGNUM guns using 44 MAGNUM cases) with good results and no problems - as usual, your mileage may very however.
.
regards,
Paul

 

[Protocall_Design]

I just now found this thread. I have been shooting 300 gr. 44 bullets for about 30 years in Metallic silhouette. I normally use the Hornady XTP bullets, but a while back after covid, I couldn't get them any more. I found some coated cast 300 gr. hollow points and used them for a couple of years, maybe 1000 bullets. They worked fine, too. I have now got some more XTPs and gone back to them. These are all shooting good groups out to 200 meters (218 yards).

The load has always been 18.0 gr. of IMR or H 4227. The recoil of these is like a moderate 44 special. A round of Sil. is 40 targets, one shot each, hit or miss. I have shot 3 rounds in one day many times (120 shots), with no recoil related effects of any kind. I think you would like this load a lot. The 19 grain load will probably be pretty similar.

I was able to get 36/40 yesterday at our local Sept. match, shooting DA as always.

 

[Dvus]

Many years ago I came across a box of Hornady 300 gr. Soft points and decided to give them a try. With a max. load of H110 and Winchester primers the third shot locked up my Super Blackhawk due to bullets pulling from the cases under recoil. I went home and ran the rest back through the seating die and applied the heaviest crimp I could without crushing the case. Back at the range I would shoot five and pull the sixth to inspect and 50% of the time the sixth bullet had started creeping out of the case. The recoil wasn't as bad as my Sierra 220 gr. Silhouette screamers, but it was enough to rattle the bullets out of the cases. Asexpected the 300 gr. bullets didn't have the best accuracy for me so I didn't use them anymore.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Well, a trip to the range yesterday proved, thankfully, quite fruitful.

Shot all 6 test loads with no problems what-so-ever. There was, as expected, a barely noticable difference in both recoil & perceived velocity between the 19.0gr loads and their 20.0gr versions for both powders.

All loads were sufficient for the intended use: I don't doubt higher powered loads could be easily and safely developed, but for what real purpose? The 19.0gr loads were plenty and accurate to boot! These will be my "go to" ammo for serious situations, should some arise?

Thanks, again to all who were kind enough to respond.

Cheers!

 

[Dan W. Cady]

Found some bullets from long ago (before I ever had a 44 Magnum: my pistol is a Ruger SuperBlackHawk Hunter.)

The bullets are 300gr Federal lead WFPGC. Cases will be new Starline with Remington Magnum LPPs. Anticipated OAL is 1.640".

The plethora of variations in so-called "Published Load Data" for 300gr bullets is downright baffling! Without getting into too much detail loads for the exact same bullets at the exact same OAL with over a FULL GRAIN of ADDITIONAL powder charge can vary 125fps, but in the WRONG DIRECTION!

i.e. Hornady 300gr XTP at 1.600" using 20.1gr H110 = 1200 fps per Hornady, the bullet manufacturer. The same bullet, same 1.600" but with 19.0gr of H110 = 1325fps(?) per R. Lee.

This hard cast gas checked bullet most closely resembles the Lyman #429650 (a discontinued SWC) for which there is LYMAN data, 18.5gr H110 but at 1.700" (!) but only 1036fps.

I only have 18 of these, which are probably enough to last me a lifetime (unless a herd of elephants or a sloth of Griz decides to invade the Ocean Shores peninsula) if I don't burn some up in load development. Don't want to wienie-out (Buffalo Bore's 305gr version is 1300 & Grizzly's at 1400fps!) TOO much, though...

So... How does 20.0gr of H110 @ 1.640" (OR 19.0gr of IMR 4227) sound?

I appreciate your kind consideration in advance!

Cheers!

I like the 4227 load and believe you will too.

 

[Eddie Southgate]

Wouldn't waste my time on 18 bullets.