Help with S&W Victory

[screamingchicken]

I picked this up at a local Pawn shop today. Its a WW2 era S&W victory. It has some things I am not sure about. Its all matching, has the US Property GHD and firebomb. Its marked 38 S&W ctg not 38 S&W special. I checked and its not been bored out, it only fits the 38 S&W CTG. I though these were sent over seas for lend lease. But I did not think that the these were marked US property on them. I load 38 S&W so no issue if I want to shoot it. Thanks for any incite on this gun. https://ibb.co/ck1YFF3
https://ibb.co/M5R9Qcb
https://ibb.co/nB7wpR0
https://ibb.co/D12SKrn
https://ibb.co/DMvZN8J
https://ibb.co/59Jw9Mh
https://ibb.co/frFD9P1
https://ibb.co/QKSbxZq
https://ibb.co/NnJD57k

 

[JP@AK]

Lend/Lease units were marked U.S. Property because that is what they were. Owned by the U.S. and lent to the UK. Earlier BSRs that were part of an outright purchase by the British Purchasing Commission were not marked U.S. Property because the Brits owned them. Those included many that S&W provided in lieu of payment for the $1M the UK advanced to the company on the light machine gun development, which never came to fruition. The BPC stopped purchasing small arms when the Lend/Lease Act went into effect - I believe it was in late 1941 (if that's off, someone will correct me).

 

[screamingchicken]

So that answers the question about the US property. What about the value, is it more less or about the same as one that is in 38 Special? How would this have gotten into the public domain? Would it have been a bring back or did the Brits give them back after the war? Thanks for the help

 

[JP@AK]

The British government kept them. Many of them were distributed to occupation law enforcement in the German states after the war. Many more were released for civilian sale, both in Great Britain and here in the U.S.

The UK eventually paid the U.S. back for the millions of dollars worth of equipment provided under Lend/Lease, except for a portion that was forgiven. It took a couple decades, but they did it. Off hand I cannot recall when the final payment was made. This was unlike the Soviet Union, which never paid back a thin dime.

If yours isn't marked with postwar British proof info, then it could have been a bring back. Difficult to say for sure.

As for the value, many of us won't hazard a guess without seeing what it looks like. Somebody here will check out your photo links and give you an opinion.

 

[DWalt]

Condition would be more influential to value of a BSR than whether it was Lend-Lease or not.

 

[gkitch]

It seems the 38 Special Victory Models are more valuable -and easier to sell- than a 38 S&W variant of similar condition.

 

[screamingchicken]

The funny thing on this gun is it has the US Property and the initials of the US inspector, but I don't see any marks for the British. Did some of these 38 S&Ws get used in the USA? Maybe it was going over and did not make it before the wars end or it went to some place else. Any help on this appreciated.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

The funny thing on this gun is it has the US Property and the initials of the US inspector, but I don't see any marks for the British. Did some of these 38 S&Ws get used in the USA? Maybe it was going over and did not make it before the wars end or it went to some place else. Any help on this appreciated.

Yes. It could have been kept in the country for security or law enforcement service.

 

[DWalt]

The British did not mark the L-L Victories while they were in service. But they did have them proofed and stamped when they were surplused out for civilian sale in the US during the 1950s-1960s. And no small number of them found their way back here via extra-legal means after the war. Those would not have been proofed.

 

[cmansguns]

Some examples British proofed and no Brit markings

below example 1 is a Lend-Lease, 5", 38 S&W, all numbers matching V-337660, US Property GHD, no British proof marks anywhere. According to my buddies family lore, this one was given to his FIL (A US Navy Captain) by a British officer when the FIL's LST was taking wounded off of Normandy Beach. Not for sale, but valued at $500 - $600 if it were.

 

[cmansguns]

Another example Brit Proofed

Example 2 belongs to my sons' friend who inherited it from his father who passed a couple years ago. It is also a 5", 38 S&W, not bored out, all numbers matching, s/n 888081 on butt with (Inspector) WB and flaming bomb. Note there is no "V" in the s/n.

British Proofs abound, so probably commercial sale re-imported to USA, but no importer stamp can be found anywhere on the gun.

This one not for sale either but again valued in the $500 - $600 range if it were.

 

[Pisgah]

It seems the 38 Special Victory Models are more valuable -and easier to sell- than a 38 S&W variant of similar condition.

Certainly true in the US -- but I'd be curious to know if it's true within the British Commonwealth countries where .38 S&W was the standard.

 

[DWalt]

There were far more BSRs made during WWII in comparison to the US .38 Special variety, so there are more BSRs available. However, at least in the USA, for shooting use .38 S&W ammunition is somewhat more difficult to find and more expensive than .38 Special. Anyone owning a BSR who plans to shoot it much is advised to take up handloading. Many of the imported BSRs sold in the USA during the 50s-60s will be found converted to use .38 Special. Of course, that adversely and significantly lowers their collectible value.

 

[screamingchicken]

I got into collecting the old Iver Johnson and US revolvers that are chambered in 38 S&W. So I started to load for that round. I don't have a lot of brass but I have the dies and 500 bullets from Missouri bullet company for this round. I will keep an eye out for more brass. I just did a web search, for a cartridge that is not used much you can not find any brass at all. Its all out of stock. Maybe because of covid they did not produce much but still no used or old stock at all that I can find.

 

[DWalt]

.38 Short Colt brass can be used, but I don't know if that is any more available than .38 S&W brass. It has the same case diameter as the .38 Special. Or you can shorten .38 Special brass. Fortunately, I have accumulated several hundred .38 S&W cases and I am careful to not lose any.

Shortening .38 Super brass would probably work better, as it has a case diameter closer to that of the .38 S&W. But I have not tried that. I do load .38 S&W using a .38 Super FL sizing die.

 

[screamingchicken]

I have the correct .38 S&W dies. I have about 50 or so brass cases. But I though another 100 or so would be nice. I will keep an eye on ebay and GB. They come up form time to time.