Hermann Goering's S&W revolver

[PALADIN85020]

I find it interesting that Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering, World War I fighter ace, the leader of the Luftwaffe, and the number 2 Nazi under Adolf Hitler, carried a Smith & Wesson M&P revolver by preference during WWII and turned it over to Allied forces when he surrendered. Records show that the gun was produced in 1934; it had a 4-inch barrel. Goering evidently purchased it at a Hamburg gun shop before WWII. While other high-ranking Germans at the time carried Walthers, Lugers, and P.38s (notably Irwin Rommel favored a stock P.38), Goering preferred an American revolver. It's interesting that Hitler himself often carried a S&W Ladysmith .22 revolver - the same gun with which his cousin/former mistress Geli Raubal committed suicide in 1931.

I happen to have a S&W produced in 1934, the same year as Goering's gun. It's a Model of 1905 fourth variation with a 5" barrel. Apparently its only distinction from the Goering gun is the length of the barrel. The finish and grips look identical.

Here is Goering's gun, now on display at the U.S. Military Academy in West Point, NY:

Here's a better view of my almost identical revolver:

So there have been historical Smith & Wessons on both sides during WWII - quality guns were recognized on both sides of the Atlantic!

John

 

[M29since14]

Thanks, John. Good to see that revolver. For some reason, I thought Goring's S&W was a 5-inch.

You mention Rommel. Unlike Goring, I gather he was a VERY spartan sort of fellow. It would not have been like him to acquire anything other than ordinary issue weapons. It is said there were two handguns and various army-issue rifles in his home the day he was picked up. It is a shame he did not make an effort to use them, no matter how futile it would have been. I would like to think that an American would never have been led off to his certain death like that, but no one can seriously doubt Rommel's bravery, so it makes the incident all the more curious.

 

[opoefc]

Goering's "Photo Op." surrender of his S&W to Allied Officers required him to turn over the revolver to a succession of different Allied Officers, with a photo of each event. One of the officers there was General Fred Barnes, CO of the 9th Armored Div, the unit that took the first bridge over the Rhine River. I met Gen. Barnes in later years and he related the event to me and the irony of it was that Gen. Barnes sold me his German Walther .380 PPK , which was the handgun he carried in WW2, as he felt it was a superior weapon to the .380 Colt Model 1908 that was issued by the US Army to General Officers. Ed.

 

[opoefc]

M29since14, From what I've read, the choice given Rommel by the Gestapo was to commit suicide by your own hand or you and you entire family will be hung on meat hooks in Hitler's cellar, as was done with the other conspirator's involved in the assassination attempt on Hitler. Ed.

 

[Texas Star]

John-


Thanks for the photos.I knew this, but will post a link on another board, not about guns, in hopes of informing the members there, most female, some European.

In fact, I write fan fiction about a TV show they like, and armed three characters with guns precisely like that five-inch M&P, except that they insisted on the older grips with gold medallions. Only one originally came that way.

Of course, the Browning M-35 9mm and the Norwegian M-1914 .45 served both sides. Add the Beretta M-34.

Where did you read that about Rommel's gun? I read somewhere that he carried a Walther .32, like many senior officers. I've never been able to find a photo of him armed. I have seen Goering wearing that .38. Can't find photos of Montgomery wearing a gun, either. Field Marshal Alexander wore probably a Webley MK VI or an Enfield .38, as the gun has the round lanyard ring, not the flatter style seen on Colts or S&W's. The butt shows under the flap holster in some photos. He wore a leather holster, not the webbing Pattern 37.


Thanks again for the good photos.

 

[M29since14]

Ed, Rommel's wife was present. His son and aide implored him to resist, weapons were available, and they would have assisted him, but he declined because of his concern for her - which was, of course, understandable.

He knew he would not survive in either case, but what a monstrous decision - to basically die depending on the "honor" of those involved in the "offer" for the safety of his wife and son. Given the "honor" issue (there was none among the officers involved) I believe I would have taken another course, but that is easy for me to say.

 

[29-1]

M29since14, From what I've read, the choice given Rommel by the Gestapo was to commit suicide by your own hand or you and you entire family will be hung on meat hooks in Hitler's cellar, as was done with the other conspirator's involved in the assassination attempt on Hitler. Ed.

Ed, Rommel's son was mayor of Stuttgart when we were stationed there in the early 90s and quite popular too. Bet he was always glad his father took the first choice you mentioned.
Chuck

 

[M29since14]

T-Star, when you read a little about Rommel, you will find he took a considerable interest in various small arms. I believe you are correct in mentioning a 7.65mm PP. At the time of his death there likely were two handguns in his residence, described as "8- and 9-mm pistols," by one author. I have always assumed the "8-" mm pistol was probably his PP, which I believe was a gift from Hitler, but you know how assumptions can be. In any case, there is literature that indicates he not only took the pain to be armed, but sometimes used his pistols - though not against enemy combatants.

 

[Texas Star]

T-Star, when you read a little about Rommel, you will find he took a considerable interest in various small arms. I believe you are correct in mentioning a 7.65mm PP. At the time of his death there likely were two handguns in his residence, described as "8- and 9-mm pistols," by one author. I have always assumed the "8-" mm pistol was probably his PP, which I believe was a gift from Hitler, but you know how assumptions can be. In any case, there is literature that indicates he not only took the pain to be armed, but sometimes used his pistols - though not against enemy combatants.

You mean he practiced on the range?

 

[ol' geeser]

maybe?

T-Star, when you read a little about Rommel, you will find he took a considerable interest in various small arms. I believe you are correct in mentioning a 7.65mm PP. At the time of his death there likely were two handguns in his residence, described as "8- and 9-mm pistols," by one author. I have always assumed the "8-" mm pistol was probably his PP, which I believe was a gift from Hitler, but you know how assumptions can be. In any case, there is literature that indicates he not only took the pain to be armed, but sometimes used his pistols - though not against enemy combatants.

Wasn't the c-96 made in some 8mm chambering? I thought I read that somewhere....A broomhandle would certainly be something he might keep around given his appreciation for all things mechinical......

 

[M29since14]

Yes, he was something of a "shooter" in a very utilitarian sense, if you know what I mean. For instance, there are stories indicating that he used his pistols to kill animals for food, when he was in North Africa. The enterprise was what might be considered unsporting. (He shot from his moving vehicle.) The stories can sound somewhat implausible, but who knows what really happened? He was such a revered figure that it's possible some outlandish things were attributed to him.

 

[PALADIN85020]

John-


Thanks for the photos.I knew this, but will post a link on another board, not about guns, in hopes of informing the members there, most female, some European.

Where did you read that about Rommel's gun?


Thanks again for the good photos.

I read that from an item found on the internet about the guns carried by WWII leaders. It may not be entirely accurate, because it tells of Ike having a Colt Detective Special, and then pictures a later one having an ejector rod shroud. In actuality, Ike was issued a Colt Commando revolver during WWII.

The German Wehrmacht used some Spanish pistols, the Astra 600/43 in 9mm, and the Condor Legion used .380 Astras. The Germans also used Belgian FN High Powers and Polish P.35(p) Radom/VIS pistols in 9mm. The latter gun was issued widely to the German Navy, police units, and the Waffen SS.

It seems Goering was an avid gun collector and had quite a few, including a number of very expensive embellished examples. Hitler's personal possessions included very few guns - "...most of his personal possessions could be stuffed in a valise." The German higher ups usually had bodyguards, and most relied on them rather than personal firearms for protection. Hitler was paranoid (for good reason), and often you will see pictures of him with his right hand stuffed into an overcoat pocket - probably holding that little Ladysmith .22 (serial #709) with its history as being a suicide gun used by his cousin/mistress. It's reported that he fired it in the air to garner attention from time to time. That gun was retrieved from one of his former residences by a U.S. GI who helped to inspect the premises. It was found in a desk drawer in a small case. That turned out to be a really valuable souvenir! You can read about that one here:

The Gun of Destiny

John

 

[Göring's S&W]

I find it interesting that Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering, World War I fighter ace, the leader of the Luftwaffe, and the number 2 Nazi under Adolf Hitler, carried a Smith & Wesson M&P revolver by preference during WWII and turned it over to Allied forces when he surrendered. Records show that the gun was produced in 1934; it had a 4-inch barrel. Goering evidently purchased it at a Hamburg gun shop before WWII.

I of course have found this interesting for some time now

Here is a photo of some Goring's (English spelling "Goering") personal items at surrender. Included is the S&W. The baton in the photo was made of ivory with gold and platinum inlays. Talk about blingin'

 

[prettyvacant007]

Smith and Wesson 10-6 Versus 10-14 and others?

Why is it the 10-6 is always cheaper in porice used than say a 10-8. 10-14 or the other one's?? Pardon my ignornace but I am totally new to Smith's (But not new to guns) so if there is no 10-14, sorry.

 

[A10]

I of course have found this interesting for some time now

Here is a photo of some Goring's (English spelling "Goering") personal items at surrender. Included is the S&W. The baton in the photo was made of ivory with gold and platinum inlays. Talk about blingin'

Any idea what the little gold semiauto is?

 

[STCM(SW)]

I saw Goring’s S&W in a glass case next to his uniform in the museum at West Point in the ‘70’s.

 

[zzclancy]

Thanks for this thread. I like to hear stories about firearms with military histories.

 

[DCWilson]

I had heard about Hitler's Ladysmith, but I did not know that we knew that much about it. Fascinating.

 

[chud333]

Good thread indeed John. It is interesting to
hear that even our worst of enemies still had the
"good taste" enough to buy a S&W when they could
have chosen any firearm manufacturer in the world.
Also like A-10, i'm curious as to what the small Gold
plated semi-auto in the Hitler possessions is.

Chuck

 

[1HAWKEYE]

The small gold pistol looks like a FN pocket model in 6.35mm or as we know it in the states a Baby Browning in .25 acp.