Holsters that do not cover the trigger

[Mexistrat]

My stepfather was a cop. He died of his second heart attack in 1993. His sons had little interest in his things I guess, and I wound up with his gun belt and accessories. The holster fits a 4" K-frame, and leaves the trigger and trigger guard completely exposed. Is there a reason for that, or was that just how they used to do it? It seems unsafe to me for obvious reasons. I wouldn't mind using the holster sometime, but can't get over that exposed trigger.

 

[arjay]

Thats how they were made back then,we are a more safety conscious society now or maybe more liability conscious.

 

[Iggy]

A lot of us old timers used those holsters for entire careers in LE without shooting ourselves in the butt.

If I had been using the "secure level" holsters of today back then I probably would have got killed a couple of times.

 

[OFT II]

At least half of my holsters have the trigger guard exposed. One of my favorite designs is the original pancake holster by Roy Baker.

 

[Mexistrat]

A lot of us old timers used those holsters for entire careers in LE without shooting ourselves in the butt.

If I had been using the "secure level" holsters of today back then I probably would have got killed a little a couple of times.

So you actually drew your gun with your finger already on the trigger? I can see that being somewhat reasonable in the revolver days (though I wouldn't do it) but it just doesn't seem any quicker to me. It would seem that the risk of getting it caught on something, or some jerk being able to discharge your firearm without even needing to first take it from you would be a liability.

I'm not trying to argue. I can accept that it used to be that way, and now it isn't. I was just curious as to the rationale behind the original design.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Bianchi still offers their classic Models 5BH and 5BHL with the exposed trigger.....this is the belt holster a lot of us started out with in the 70s....... cutting edge with....wait for it.............. thumb break retention!

Note: the hammer can't move with the thumb snap in place.....

 

[Iggy]

There was nothing much available back then with a covered trigger.

We just learned not to pull the trigger until the gun was on target..
Most holsters wouldn't let a revolver cylinder rotate while the gun was in it.
By the time you cleared leather, it was time to be shooting.

As far as keeping the gun in the holster, many had a security strap. When you thought things were questionable, you could unsnap the strap or it would swivel out of the way. Officers learned to stand in a manner to protect their gun when in a "discussion" with someone.
If things turned bad, they turned real bad real fast.

Back then, we seldom had back up. We had few options.

Things get "purty quick" when you're watching a feller's gun coming to bear on your chest and trying to shoot before he does.

 

[Mexistrat]

Bianchi still offers their classic Models 5BH and 5BHL with the exposed trigger.....this is the belt holster a lot of us started out with in the 70s....... cutting edge with....wait for it.............. thumb break retention!

Note: the hammer can't move with the thumb snap in place.....

The one I have has a thumbrake. I really like it, just kind of hung up on the trigger thing. For some reason I forgot that the gun won't fire with retention in place.

There was nothing much available back then with a covered trigger.

We just learned not to pull the trigger until the gun was on target..
Most holsters wouldn't let a revolver cylinder rotate while the gun was in it.
By the time you cleared leather, it was time to be shooting.

I spent an afternoon shooting with Bill Jordan. He was so fast that he was starting the double action trigger pull when the gun cleared the holster, by the split second later when the gun came level the hammer was falling.

I did one heck of a lot of practicing, drew and dry fired every day before going on duty for 13 years. I never came close to being as quick as Bill.

As far as keeping the gun in the holster, many had a security strap. When you thought things were questionable, you could unsnap the strap or it would swivel out of the way. Officers learned to stand in a manner to protect their gun when in a "discussion" with someone.

That was a time when nobody even thought of screwing with a LEO. If a BG din't intend to kill him right off the bat, it was "Yes Sir, No Sir!"

If Bg intended to kill the officer, there wasn't any formalities, it was Oh S**t, and shoot time. The less you had to think about the better your chances of beating him to the draw.

Things get "purty quick" when you're watching a feller's gun coming to bear on your chest and trying to shoot before he does.

It sounds like it was a more civilized time. I'd forgotten that revolvers are taken out of battery if the cylinder can't rotate. It seems less of a liability with that in mind, especially with the added security of a thumbrake.

 

[GrayGhost99]

Go back and read some skeeter or jordan, read about the detectives that would cocktail and lock a 1911 and shove it in the wasteband of their pants many times with a rubber band wrapped around the grip safety.
That's scary, funny thing is I've met old cops that admitted to doing it before.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Holsters with covered or enclosed trigger guards were pretty rare prior to about 1990. Before that most holsters featured exposed trigger guard areas.

Why did this change? Primarily because of the introduction of striker-fired semi-auto pistols, many with no mechanical safety (Glock and others). Folks started carrying those and handling them as they were accustomed to with the earlier designs, and the results included pistols discharging in the holsters when contacted by seat belts, automobile upholstery, eager user's fingers going into the trigger guard during the draw, and other such events. Consequently a general change took place, with many law enforcement agencies and ranges (public and private) requiring covered trigger guards. Since then many people have become convinced that this feature is a requirement for any holster or handgun.

With double-action revolvers such as the S&W, Colt, Ruger, and most other modern designs pulling the trigger in DA mode requires about 20 lbs. of pressure applied over about an inch of travel, and the trigger must be held down while the hammer falls in order for the firing pin to strike a primer. The internal transfer bar will prevent firing, even if the revolver is cocked in single-action mode and the trigger is bumped rather than pulled and held down as the hammer falls.

I hear from a lot of younger shooters who have come to this activity within the past 20 years or so, anxiously wanting to know why I offer such "unsafe" holster designs as the Classic Tom Threepersons design (now 95 years old, and a standard for law enforcement and sportsmen for most of the 20th Century). Some are practically dribbling in their jeans just looking at a photo of such a horrible thing!

I'd like to see some of their faces if they ever saw the clamshell holsters used by some police departments, on which the trigger finger had to be pushed through the trigger guard to release the revolver from the holster!

For your Glocks, Kahrs, Springfield XD series, S&W M&P line, and some other recent arrivals a covered trigger guard is the best choice. For most of the older handgun designs (especially the modern double-action revolvers) it is purely a matter of personal preference (or occasionally a requirement of the insurance company covering your range).

 

[elpac3]

back in the 70's uniform was the Safariland border patrol holster. Safety strap and exposed trigger guard. Drill was when you got out of the car on traffic stops you unsnapped and moved the safety strap down over the front of the holster and always stood with your gun side away from the other person.

No vests back in the day - you maybe had a ballistic clip board to hold across your chest and fire with the other hand but only during the day - when you're not holding your Kell light in your left hand.

Revolver won't go off in a tight fitting holster and the safety strap prevents any possible hammer movement. A leap forward was the Bianchi model 27 holster, a front break holster, that prevented a suspect from grabbing your revolver from the side or rear.

 

[GerSan69]

So you actually drew your gun with your finger already on the trigger? I can see that being somewhat reasonable in the revolver days (though I wouldn't do it) but it just doesn't seem any quicker to me. It would seem that the risk of getting it caught on something, or some jerk being able to discharge your firearm without even needing to first take it from you would be a liability.

I'm not trying to argue. I can accept that it used to be that way, and now it isn't. I was just curious as to the rationale behind the original design.

I don't get where you think he was drawing with his finger on the trigger. He never said that.
Just because the trigger is exposed doesn't mean you HAVE to put your finger in there when you draw.
That was simply the "fashion" of the time. The change back to covered triggers was liability, plain and simple, under the guise of "safety."
I said "change back" because if you'll look at holsters from the 1800s and early 1900s, many (maybe even the majority; I'm not certain) were designed to cover the entire works of the handgun with the grip exposed, with some variations.
I used many different kinds over the years...never had problems with any of them.

 

[Mexistrat]

I don't get where you think he was drawing with his finger on the trigger. He never said that.

No, you're right, he never said that. He said he might have got dead a couple times if he was using a holster without the trigger exposed, implying that the exposed trigger was an advantage on the draw. That is just how I read it.

EDIT: He actually said if he were using a "secure level" holster. So I was wrong. I hang my head in shame.

 

[BAM-BAM]

EDIT: He actually said if he were using a "secure level" holster. So I was wrong. I hang my head in shame.

No need to feel shame.......... you kids just don't have the same reading comprehension as us...... more mature gentlemen......

I really really wanted a 5BHL for my first 4" HB model 10 about 1978...... for the thumb break feature......... I think it took almost 6 months to get one pre internet.....today......... Amazon .....2 days...

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Lobo gets it right!

I hear from a lot of younger shooters who have come to this activity within the past 20 years or so, anxiously wanting to know why I offer such "unsafe" holster designs as the Classic Tom Threepersons design (now 95 years old, and a standard for law enforcement and sportsmen for most of the 20th Century). Some are practically dribbling in their jeans just looking at a photo of such a horrible thing!

I was fixing to explain the Tom Threepersons holster but it's no surprise that Lobo chimed in first. But the small details are as follows below; the following is drawn from my years of cowboy action shooting and reading and from various sources on the Internet, and there are many - I could have done this from my memory but I refreshed my recollection before I typed the summary that follows:

Tom Threepersons was a Cherokee born in the late 1800s, in Oklahoma. Even though his career in law enforcement was in the 1900s he is considered to have been an Old West gunfighter because even into the early 20th century the Southwest was still pretty wild. At some point in time he invented a holster that was different from the typical holsters carried by Western gunmen because, usually, most of the gun sat below the lip of the holster, except the butt, and sometimes even the butt sunk into the older style holsters. The "Tom Threepersons" holster allowed the entire trigger guard to be exposed. If you have to draw a single action style sixgun in a hurry and get it into action the Tom Threepersons type of holster is much faster than the Slim Jim/California style (gun deep inside the holster) or even the Mexican loop style (exposed trigger guard but not raised above the holster lip).

What he added, for the sake of safety, was the hammer loop, a thong of leather that went tightly over the hammer so the gun stayed in place.

Tom Threepersons was well known in the Southwest and the well known saddle maker, the S.D. Myres Saddle Co., of El Paso, began selling what they called "Tom Threepersons-style holsters". The holster, which included a cutaway top exposing the pistol hammer and trigger guard, became popular and was copied by several other manufacturers. El Paso Saddlery is kind of the successor to this tradition - if you go to its website you'll see a host of Western styles. I am not sure if they make a specific "Tom Threepersons" holster any more but they used to because that's basically all I ever normally used for cowboy action shooting and they were super easy to draw from and no, you didn't have a safety issue because the trigger was exposed.

(c) History of Western Gun Leather - Holster and Gun Belt

(c) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Threepersons

For your Glocks, Kahrs, Springfield XD series, S&W M&P line, and some other recent arrivals a covered trigger guard is the best choice.

Yessirreebob - those tricky triggers need to be covered up FOR SURE!!!

Thank, Lobo!

 

[SilentKnight]

Bill Jordan carried that way and wrote the book, "No Second Place Winner." It is a great read from a professional gunman. If memory serves me, he designed a holster for his purposes and it was widely accepted by those that knew the business. Sounds similar to yours. It was well used by the LEAs such as the Border Patrol back in Jordan's time. Times have changed, revolvers are not carried as often as primary defense weapons by LEA. But there was a time the Model 19 K frame 4 inch was the weapon of choice. It is still a great firearm and accurate. The Model 66 is the stainless version. I preferred the 2.5 inch barrel with a round butt. I still carry a wheel gun quite often but have gone to the 325 air lite 45 in 2.5 inch barrel with round butt. Holster is a FBI forward cant pancake that covers the trigger. Great carrier. Your stepfather knew what he was doing. God bless him.

 

[sigp220.45]

I like holsters that don't cover the trigger, except for my little Glock.

 

[Goblin]

On a side note, I like the Threepersons holster for the times you want people to admire a beautiful gun, as they usually show more of it.

 

[Iggy]

For clarification, Yeah my finger was/is on the trigger when I pull a revolver.

I spent an afternoon shootin' with a big feller by the name of Bill Jordan and he jerked me out from my FBI "by the numbers" training right quick.

This was long before anybody carried anything but revolvers and an occasional 1911.
I left LE in 1979 and lost track of all of the new gimmicks and fashions.
I never saw a holster that covered the trigger until I got hooked up to the internet 20 years later.

I'm still packin' N frame revolvers in holsters compliments of keith44special. They don't cover the trigger.

All of this bein' said, I never thought that percussion cap fired guns was anything but a passin' fad.

 

[tops]

I find it odd that people say I am unsafe with my exposed trigger revolver but when I hear of people shooting themselves it is usually with a striker fired gun. Larry