Hornady 225gr FTX 45 cal. bullets

[BLUEDOT37]

I just bought a box of these Hornady 225gr FTX 45 cal. bullets (#45218) to try. The 2012 Hornady catalog & their Reloading Manual #8 show that this bullet has two cannelures, as does Hornady's website.
Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Bullets :: Handgun :: Choose by Caliber :: .452 45 CAL :: 45 Cal .452 225 gr FTX® (45 Colt)

The box has the same picture but once I got home & opened the box I found they only have one cannelure. I've used their 300gr XTP (#45230) before & it has two cannelures, like the catalog shows.

Has anyone used these before? Did they change or did they always have just one cannelure? (The 300gr 50 cal FTX, #50102, I bought last year has one cannelure, like the catalog picture.)

 

[Cdog]

I have some FTX bullets that were purchased two or more years back. One is the 200 grain #45215. It has one cannelure. The other is 250 grain #45201 and they don't have a cannelure.

I used these in a .450 Bushmaster that headspaces on the case mouth so I'd never paid any attention that they didn't have a cannelure.

Of the top of my head, the 300's are the only one's that I remember having two.

It was amazing just how accurate those 300 grain XTP's were at 200 yds propelled at a chronographed 1900+ fps from the Bushy. Shaped like a huge bumble bee, but they fly straight.

I never figured out much to do with that combo though, so I sold it.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Barely Short Enough

I loaded some of these in 454 Casull cases last night & the OAL is 1.795", just barely short enough for the Ruger SRH cylinder. I'll have to watch them closely for bullet jump when I try them out.

 

[Cdog]

I never had any issues with .454 brass holding on under some atrocious recoil.

I was loading them before the Lee FCD, but I wasn't loading Hornady bullets then either.

The heavy .44 magnum bullets have always been more of a challenge for me to keep seated than anything else. The Lee FCD did help with them.

I wasn't the least bit shy about dosing up magnum handgun cartridges. My hands and wrist can't stand the abuse now. I still love em' just can't shootem without paying a price now.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Hornady Tech email

I sent Hornady C/S an email about this. They said the second cannelure on the "old" version wasn't for crimping, but rather for core retention. (Nothing I've read cautions about that. I replied & asked does that also apply to #45230's two cannelures too.) The "new" version doesn't need it. Got no explaination on why their websites documentation isn't correct. I also asked why there's no load data for this bullet in the 45Colt/Ruger or 454 Casull section. They said because that bullet didn't exist when #8 came out, put I replied back advising that didn't make any sense because it is shown in the 45 Colt/SAA section, but not the others. Also asked for load data for those two. No reply back from them yet.

 

[Cdog]

I've learned that too many times we are told "something" by manufacturer's reps, whether or not it has anything to do with reality.

I'd rather be told "We missed that", or even "I don't know", than have smoke blown up my dress.

I shoot a lot of Hornady products, but I've been insulted by their CS before too. I reported opening some .284" bullets that contained two .308" rounds.

I was told that it didn't happen. That I must have mixed some in by accident. I know the truth, so I let it go.

They didn't waste anytime getting Midsouth to contact me about some mislabeled .243" bullets I bought a few years back though.

Good luck, enjoy that Casull!

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Follow-up

Just a follow-up on this: I loaded some of these in 454 Casull cases & they were almost too long for the cylinder of my SRH. Even though the crimping ring (somewhat shallow, IMO) is near the shoulder, the tip is relatively long & just clears the cylinder opening. Also, because of the crimp ring position, the seating depth (cannelure to base length) is more than other Hornady 45 cal. bullets, except the 300 grainers. And the overall bullet length is almost as long as their 300gr XTP-Mag (.804 vs .812").

I also loaded some of these in 45 Auto Rim cases for my 325NG, for grins. Because of the 325's cylinder length (long throats) being so long, relative to the short ACP/AR case, the loaded cartridge OAL is not an issue in it. However, because of the longer seating depth, you lose some case capacity. You lose more than .020" compared to their 230 XTP & .085" compared to a 200 XTP's seating depth. These later two don't have cannelures, being ACP bullets, while the FTX does, which is it's biggest asset for me. The 325NG is relatively light & with +P or Super loads, recoil causes "bullet jump" on taper crimped loads. The cannelures & a roll crimp cure this. (I like some spicy loads once in a while, besides, those red tipped, pointed bullets look wild in the short AR cases. )

Here's a 45AR beside a 500 S&W, both with FTX bullets.

.

Fat Man & Little Boy (S&W 500 & 45AR)

(-02a)

.

 

[buck460XVR]

Just a follow-up on this: I loaded some of these in 454 Casull cases & they were almost too long for the cylinder of my SRH. Even though the crimping ring (somewhat shallow, IMO) is near the shoulder, the tip is relatively long & just clears the cylinder opening. Also, because of the crimp ring position, the seating depth (cannelure to base length) is more than other Hornady 45 cal. bullets, except the 300 grainers. And the overall bullet length is almost as long as their 300gr XTP-Mag (.804 vs .812").

Isn't this the reason Hornady recommended trimming cases used for the FTX bullets to shorter than standard lengths? I know factory loaded ammo with these types of bullets have shortened cases and one needs to allow for this when using them for standard bullets.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Isn't this the reason Hornady recommended trimming cases used for the FTX bullets to shorter than standard lengths? I know factory loaded ammo with these types of bullets have shortened cases and one needs to allow for this when using them for standard bullets.

Hornady only lists this bullet in the 45 Colt/SAA revolver section & it does say to trim the case .060" shorter than the normal trim-to length. They don't say why but I assume it's because the normal Colt/SAA cylinder's length isn't long enough without doing this. (If your gun has tight throats, that might be another reason why you'd have to shorten the cases when using these. These bullets fall right through my cylinders so that's not a factor for me, but may be for others.) My Ruger SRH 454 cylinder is (just) long enough when loading these in Casull cases & no problem if using them in Colt cases.

They never explained why it's not listed in the Colt/Ruger & Casull sections, when I asked. Maybe it's because of OAL issues in some guns; maybe it's because of tight throats + longer ogive = >pressure; maybe it's because the deeper seating depth = >pressure; maybe they just didn't want to do the take the time to compile the data; maybe it's all the above; maybe none of them ?? I don't think it's much different than what you encounter with heavier than normal bullets & where their extra length goes. You just have to be aware & look at your own situation, would be my thoughts.

 

[Handgunner454]

Hornady .452 225gr FTX bullets

I contacted Hornady about these because I wanted some data for my Bushmaster.
Hornady informed me that these were made for the .45 Colt. Speeds are to high in the bushmaster and 454. You will notice on the 454 the Freedom Arms 240gr, the 300gr. The Hornady XTP Mag 240gr and XTP Mag 300gr are the only ones listed for full loads. You may get premature upset because of thinner jackets on lesser built bullets at those high speeds.
I have loaded my Freedom, 454 for over 10 years and have never used anything but Mag bullets in it with complete success. If you use the XTP 225gr, handle with care.
Handgunner454

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Incomplete answers

I contacted Hornady about these because I wanted some data for my Bushmaster.
Hornady informed me that these were made for the .45 Colt. Speeds are too high in the Bushmaster and 454.

I appreciate your sharing that info from them. Unfortunately, to me, this seems like more omitted & conflicting info from their CSRs (ref. my post #5).

In Hornady's #8 manual (I bought #8 & a week later #9 came out), pg.# 121, FTX#45218/225gr. has a listed max muzzle rating of 1800fps, similar to the non-Mag bullets, XTP#45200/250gr/1600fps & XTP#45230/300gr/1700fps, which are listed in the 45 Colt/Ruger-TC section, but no FTX is (question still unanswered). It is loaded in the 45 Colt/SAA section to 1000fps. Yes, in the 454 Casull section they only list the 240 & 300gr XTP-Mag bullets (#45220 & 45235 each rated 2200fps max) but no FTX bullet, not even the FTX#45215/200gr/2200fps (question still unanswered). Their max load listed for the 454 Casull is 1850fps. (I'd be happy to load it to a max of 1800fps, if they'd supply some data, so far I've loaded it to 1600fps.)

Your 450 Bushmaster rifle has, in addition to the two XTP-Mag bullets, FTX#45201/250gr/2200fps is loaded for it (as they also are in the 460 Mag). Two of their loads using the XTP-Mag#45220/250gr/2200fps bullet are loaded up to 2300fps (the 460Mag has one loaded to 2250fps).

I wish I could get a complete answer from them, & I've tried twice before you.

 

[Handgunner454]

Wow
Not sure what happened. Looks like my thread was edited or just parts left out. I said when I contacted Hornady a tech informed me when I brought his attention to the single cannalure that the bullets are the same. He said the double cannalure bullets were made that way because it was necessary for it to be manufactured. They have changed the proceedure and dont need the second cannalure now.
Also I stated that Freedom Arms advised not to use bullets in my 454 that were not made for the pressure and velocity of the 454. The thinner jackets upset to much and to quickly as they enter a revolvers forcing cone. This will cause excessive erosion and pressure. Also it should not be an issue in the 450 Bushy because it does not have the forcing cone. He advised not to load to max is all.
Wish this would have been included in my first thread!!!! It would have made a lot more sense then.

 

[oneyeopn]

I know this is an old thread and I apologize if I am rehashing anything. I purchased a bunch of the 225gr FTX's to load for my 45colt Levergun. I just loved how they shot. Then I saw the new Hornady 220gr Critical Duty 45acp ammo. It really appears to be the same bullet with the poly tip cut off flush with the jacket. I have loaded some of these over 6.2gr of Unique and they are a great bullet. loading to the cannalure and trimming the tip off flush, my overall length comes out and this is off the top of my head but 1.2" They cycle and shoot great out of my 1911.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

If it works within reason, GREAT. Just don't ask Hornady about it. I think the hire collage kids off the street for Costumer Service reps. If the Answer isn't in the FAQ's computer, they have no idea what you're talking about. On the other hand, Dillon won't let any person man the phones unless they are a reloader, it may be of shotgun reloading, but they are a reloader! Ivan