henschman
Member
Have you ever heard that its dangerous to buy a firearm with a proprietary design, because you are stuck relying on just one company for replacement parts? I'm here to tell you that is a very valid concern, particularly with Smith & Wesson products.
I bought an M&P 10 last year, intending to use it for hunting, as well as in the battle rifle/DMR role. I liked its light weight and longer barrel. When I first bought it, a member of another forum told me about a friend's rifle, and showed me a picture showing how the stamped text on the skinny part of the barrel apparently imprinted itself somewhat inside the bore as well -- he asked me if mine had any such issues. Upon inspection, I didn't see anything like the stamp imprint, but I did notice an odd ring around the bore in one place. It looked to be about the same diameter and height as one of the lands of rifling, but it was simply a ring all around the bore in one spot, about midway between the gas block and the muzzle. I found it odd, but didn't think anything of it because I had already fired the rifle, and it exhibited very acceptable accuracy and seemed to function OK.
Fast forward to last year's Pecos Run 'n Gun... a 6 mile run through the desert in West Texas, with shooting stations along the way. I carried my M&P 10 for the event, along with my M&P .40 pistol. I was using Lake City 147 grain M80 ball for the event. The rifle shot great -- I shot the best time on several of the rifle stages with it. Now a little context -- this event occurred in the middle of the largest flood in living memory in that area, and there was some standing water to traverse. At one point in the course, I crossed some thigh deep water, even falling into a waist-deep hole at one point. After clearing the water, I retracted the charging handle and shook the rifle muzzle-down, just as a precaution against having any water retained in the bore (I was carrying the rifle slung across my chest in a "low ready" type position, and it did go partly under water during the crossing). When I got to the next stage, which involved a not-particularly-difficult 200 yard rifle shot, I fired a shot that I called good when it broke, but which did not score a hit. I also had a failure-to-feed malfunction. I cleared the malf and fired again... again calling the shot good but getting no hit, and having the same malf. The RO said that I was hitting way in front of the target, like 20 yards out. I disregarded this because I thought if it was a miss, it was a very close one and he must be mistaken. I fired another shot I called good... but this time I saw the mud fly in front of me from the bullet's impact, way lower than I was aiming, and again had the malf. Now I knew something was wrong, and began inspecting the rifle. Loose scope mount? Nope, it's tight. I then noticed the barrel. To my horror, it was split down the middle, with the split centered about halfway between the gas block and muzzle, and showing daylight all the way through. Incredibly, neither myself nor the RO noticed the split when it happened. Well, needless to say, that event was ruined, and I was unable to complete the rest of the stages. Other runners saw the rifle and thought that I must have plugged the barrel with mud. however, I never dropped the rifle or pushed the muzzle into the ground (it would have had to go in pretty far to not only plug up the flash hider but also the muzzle itself)... the worst I did was crawl under some barbed wire with the rifle cradled in front of me, getting a little muddy, and going through the water with it. Upon reflection, I thought about the strange ring in the rifle's bore, and realized that the barrel had split right at that point.
Now on to dealing with S&W's customer service. I called and was eventually able to reach a CS rep, who e-mailed me a return shipping label, and I sent the rifle off. About 2 months later, I received a letter stating that they determined that the split barrel was not due to a defect in workmanship or materials, and that they were declining to fix it under warranty. They did, however, offer to sell me a replacement rifle for $1100 and change. I called the rep whose name was on the letter, and asked how much a new barrel for the rifle would cost. I was shocked when he told me that they do not currently sell barrels separately for the M&P 10. I asked how much they would charge me to re-barrel the rifle if I paid for the work. He said he would have to check with management to see if this was even a possibility. After not hearing from anyone in a few weeks, I called, left messages, and finally heard back from one of their senior engineers who told me that his supervisor told him that they cannot replace just the barrel assembly on a rifle. I confirmed that they did not sell M&P 10 barrels. I said, somewhat incredulously, "so you won't warranty it, you won't fix it, and you won't sell me the parts to fix it myself? I basically have an $1100 paperweight?" He seemed somewhat embarrassed to have to give me this news. He said that he had no control over what management's policies were, and that if it were up to him, he would replace the barrel for a small fee. He said he was going to return the rifle to me.
So that's my situation. I have a broken rifle with well over $1000 tied up in it, with no way to either have it fixed, or to fix it myself. I suppose I put myself in that situation, by buying a proprietary design from a company that doesn't stand behind their products. Well, good job Smith & Wesson. You fooled me once. One thing is for sure though... I am not going to make that mistake again. Oh, and I'm going to be carrying a Glock from now on.
I bought an M&P 10 last year, intending to use it for hunting, as well as in the battle rifle/DMR role. I liked its light weight and longer barrel. When I first bought it, a member of another forum told me about a friend's rifle, and showed me a picture showing how the stamped text on the skinny part of the barrel apparently imprinted itself somewhat inside the bore as well -- he asked me if mine had any such issues. Upon inspection, I didn't see anything like the stamp imprint, but I did notice an odd ring around the bore in one place. It looked to be about the same diameter and height as one of the lands of rifling, but it was simply a ring all around the bore in one spot, about midway between the gas block and the muzzle. I found it odd, but didn't think anything of it because I had already fired the rifle, and it exhibited very acceptable accuracy and seemed to function OK.
Fast forward to last year's Pecos Run 'n Gun... a 6 mile run through the desert in West Texas, with shooting stations along the way. I carried my M&P 10 for the event, along with my M&P .40 pistol. I was using Lake City 147 grain M80 ball for the event. The rifle shot great -- I shot the best time on several of the rifle stages with it. Now a little context -- this event occurred in the middle of the largest flood in living memory in that area, and there was some standing water to traverse. At one point in the course, I crossed some thigh deep water, even falling into a waist-deep hole at one point. After clearing the water, I retracted the charging handle and shook the rifle muzzle-down, just as a precaution against having any water retained in the bore (I was carrying the rifle slung across my chest in a "low ready" type position, and it did go partly under water during the crossing). When I got to the next stage, which involved a not-particularly-difficult 200 yard rifle shot, I fired a shot that I called good when it broke, but which did not score a hit. I also had a failure-to-feed malfunction. I cleared the malf and fired again... again calling the shot good but getting no hit, and having the same malf. The RO said that I was hitting way in front of the target, like 20 yards out. I disregarded this because I thought if it was a miss, it was a very close one and he must be mistaken. I fired another shot I called good... but this time I saw the mud fly in front of me from the bullet's impact, way lower than I was aiming, and again had the malf. Now I knew something was wrong, and began inspecting the rifle. Loose scope mount? Nope, it's tight. I then noticed the barrel. To my horror, it was split down the middle, with the split centered about halfway between the gas block and muzzle, and showing daylight all the way through. Incredibly, neither myself nor the RO noticed the split when it happened. Well, needless to say, that event was ruined, and I was unable to complete the rest of the stages. Other runners saw the rifle and thought that I must have plugged the barrel with mud. however, I never dropped the rifle or pushed the muzzle into the ground (it would have had to go in pretty far to not only plug up the flash hider but also the muzzle itself)... the worst I did was crawl under some barbed wire with the rifle cradled in front of me, getting a little muddy, and going through the water with it. Upon reflection, I thought about the strange ring in the rifle's bore, and realized that the barrel had split right at that point.
Now on to dealing with S&W's customer service. I called and was eventually able to reach a CS rep, who e-mailed me a return shipping label, and I sent the rifle off. About 2 months later, I received a letter stating that they determined that the split barrel was not due to a defect in workmanship or materials, and that they were declining to fix it under warranty. They did, however, offer to sell me a replacement rifle for $1100 and change. I called the rep whose name was on the letter, and asked how much a new barrel for the rifle would cost. I was shocked when he told me that they do not currently sell barrels separately for the M&P 10. I asked how much they would charge me to re-barrel the rifle if I paid for the work. He said he would have to check with management to see if this was even a possibility. After not hearing from anyone in a few weeks, I called, left messages, and finally heard back from one of their senior engineers who told me that his supervisor told him that they cannot replace just the barrel assembly on a rifle. I confirmed that they did not sell M&P 10 barrels. I said, somewhat incredulously, "so you won't warranty it, you won't fix it, and you won't sell me the parts to fix it myself? I basically have an $1100 paperweight?" He seemed somewhat embarrassed to have to give me this news. He said that he had no control over what management's policies were, and that if it were up to him, he would replace the barrel for a small fee. He said he was going to return the rifle to me.
So that's my situation. I have a broken rifle with well over $1000 tied up in it, with no way to either have it fixed, or to fix it myself. I suppose I put myself in that situation, by buying a proprietary design from a company that doesn't stand behind their products. Well, good job Smith & Wesson. You fooled me once. One thing is for sure though... I am not going to make that mistake again. Oh, and I'm going to be carrying a Glock from now on.
