Hot rodding the 45 Colt

[Skip Sackett]

I want to start this thread off with this disclaimer: "The loads I am discussing here are for use in Ruger and Thompson Center Contender/Encore and other firearms of that construction."

The reason I am not including Smith & Wesson revolvers is not because I don't think they can take "it". It is because of their construction, the "swinging crane" part of them.

The Ruger has a axle through a solid frame and cylinder. The T/C construction reminds me of a test barrel, so to speak, as there are no moving parts.

The loads I am going to discuss here are being shot from my new Ruger Blackhawk 45 caliber convertible. Like it's 22 caliber cousin, the Ruger Single Six, this firearm came with two cylinders. One for the 45 Colt of course and one for 45ACP. (This would be a really neat addition to the Smith & Wesson line too folks! Hello, Hello, any Smith people listening?)

At any rate, I started at the reload bench with the 45Colt. I have run some pretty hot stuff out of the 45AR cartridge already and was excited to start working on this old workhorse. What I found was amazing! There are some REALLY hot loads out there for the 45Colt and to be honest, I'm not sure I WANT to shoot them!

All kidding aside, I took this 5 1/2" barreled revolver to the range today to shoot Elmer's load out of it. The bullet was an H&G #502, 240gr LSWC (245+gr from my alloy), over 19.5gr of 2400. Now just so you know, Elmer's maximum suggested load for the 45Colt was 20gr of 2400.

To say the least, from this light of a revolver, no underlug and such, recoil was excessive. I averaged just over 1150fps and all the shots at 20 yards were touching.

Thinking that this was "THE LOAD" for the 45Colt, I was pretty much patting myself on the back. Then I opened the Lee #2 manual and got a real shock! In the 45Colt, Ruger/TC only section they have data that rivals the 44mag!

A 250gr XTP @ over 1500fps! WOW! Loaded over H110 no less! Did I say WOW yet?

I know that Pierce, Taffin, Linebaugh and others have some real thumpers too. Some questions for my comrades on this forum though are these:

"What kind of loads have you messed with in the 45Colt? Have any of you Cowboy Action shooters done any carbine work with these loads? Care to share?"

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Skip,

The .45 Colt is my favorite round, and I have owned a slew of guns in this chambering, including the ones I own right now. I have owned the same gun that you have, but I didn't have the extra ACP cylinder.

Get yourself a copy of Handloader #217 , and read Brian Pearce's article on loading the .45 for different frame paltforms. It is the single best article I have ever read on the subject. The loads are all pressure tested too. If you are interested in some of my data, I can go look it up for you.

For a real eye opener, look at what the Redhawk will take! 50,000PSI, and safely too. But those loads are only for the Redhawk (not the Blackhawk) and the F/A 83.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

By the way, I know not all Blackhawks will suffer from this, but quite a few have tight throats in them, running right around .448"-.450" (the last is quite common), but mine were right on at .452", and so was the bore when I slugged it (3 times).

Also, check your bore right over the screw that holds the ejector rod housing on. I had to return mine to the shop I bought it, because the factory had run the drill for the pilot hole so deep, it left a buldge in the bore. When I got back to the gunshop, we went through three more before finding one without the buldge. I doubt you will have that trouble, but it can't hurt to check.

 

[Keith Brown]

I've shot the .45 Colt quite a bit in the Smith 25 and Ruger Bisleys. The only .45 Colts I have now are the Bisleys, they are the proper home for hot rounds in this caliber IMO. The 240 is a light bullet in the .45 Colt, my favorite all around bullet is a home cast RCBS 270, I've run this bullet from about 800 fps to 1400. Another bullet I use and like is the Lee310 GC, I've shot a bunch of these at 1325 and they are very accurate benched at 25 yards with groups under two inches not a problem. I'm aware that a 250 swc at 850 fps is plenty for almost anything that walks but the .45 Colt Bisley is one I just plain enjoy shooting hot loads in. I have several Contenders but no straight wall cartridge barrels except the .22lr.

Keith

 

[redlevel]

A 255 grain SWC over 10 grains of Unique, according to a couple of different manuals I have used over the years, will chronograph right around 1000fps from a Blackhawk with 7.5 inch barrel. In my personal experience, this load will penetrate a 160 lb Georgia Whitetail deer from shoulder to shoulder, sometimes exiting the off shoulder, but often "pooching up" under the skin of the off shoulder. Same results with the same load from a Winchester Trapper short rifle. The deer usually drop in their tracks, and I've never had one go more than 25 yards. I started using that load in 1973 when I bought one of the first .45 Colt Blackhawks, and I have never seen a need for a different load. I have recently dropped the load back to 9 grains of Unique, but since I still have several hundred rounds of the old load, I haven't used it extensively. I shoot the 10 grain load in my Vaqueros and Mountain gun as well as in the Blackhawk.

From John Linebaugh:
Linebaugh's Custom Sixguns - The .45 Colt - Dissolving the Myth, Discovering the Legend
I have personally taken about 10 antelope and 1 mule deer with a .45 Colt. My wife has taken around 6 antelope and 5 mule deer with her .45 Colt. She uses a 4 3/4" Seville and the handload is a 260 Keith cast at 900 fps. This load will shoot lengthwise of antelope and mule deer at 100 yards. In my estimation it kills as well as the .270, 30-06 class rifles if the shots are placed properly. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . My wife is 5' 1" and goes about 100 lbs with her gun on. She likes the power the .45 gives her with a minimum of recoil and blast. She has hunted with me for 15 years now and is a very serious handgun shooter. I think the .45 Colt has a lot to do with this as it gives her big bore power without big bore recoil and blast. My sons also shoot the .45 Colt a lot and I had the pleasure to watch my oldest son, age 14 take a nice mule deer buck this year with a 5 1/2" Colt SAA at about 90 yards range. The load, 260 Keith at 900 fps. Its plain, no bells or whistles, but it works every time.

Here's my three-screw Blackhawk. I gave right at $100 for it in 1973, with a box of shells. I think I am still loading a few of that original box. The revolver is "on loan" to my nephew this deer season. He was hoping to purchase a .45 revolver to hunt with this season, but a new baby, a kitchen renovation, and a teacher's salary made that impossible. He hasn't scored with it yet, but I'm still hopeful of getting some sausage out of the deal. I gave him a handful of my loads to sight in and to hunt with.

 

[Snapping Twig]

Good on you for experimenting and succeeding.

I go the 900fps route with my colt, it's a 25-7 and if I want a magnum I can shoot a .44mag or a Casull.

Personally, I get a kick out of a mildly recoiling pistol that can shoot a 255g SWC through a horse at 100 yards and kill whatever is hiding behind it without being a magnum.

 

[David Sinko]

I have a Bowen Redhawk Alpine Conversion that began life as a .44 Magnum and was promptly re-bored and re-chambered to .45 Colt. It has shot thousands of rounds of 255 gr. SWC and RF at 944 FPS. My heavy load is a 335 gr. LFN at 1260 FPS, out of the 4" barrel. I actually carried this revolver concealed for a few years (even in the summer) and shot quite a few chipmunks and groundhogs with it. The heavy load has taken one whitetail, which I shot between the eyes at around 15 yards. Sadly, this revolver sees almost no use these days because I have already worn it out once and Ruger refuses to fix custom revolvers. Bowen had an extraordinarily hard time acquiring the parts to fix it. Besides, my .45 ACP 625s will shoot 255 gr. bullets close to 1000 FPS, accomplishing all that I need a .45 revolver to do.

Dave Sinko

 

[MTAustin]

Attaboy. You found one of the most versatile handgun cartridges out there, and now your really getting into the fun stuff.

I also use RCBS 270-SAA Keith-type bullets; cast by me they come to about 285 grains. 18.5 grains of 2400 with this bullet is a good thumper in my 5 1/2" BH.

Never played around with H110/WW296.

You may also want to read Brian Pearce's article in the April 2007 Handloader. It's all about RCBS 270-SAA and the 45 Colt. Lots of good load data, if you're predisposed to this bullet.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Read the disclaimer in the original post!

I got to thinking. I know, with such limited capacity, that can be a dangerous thing!

At any rate, it was considering case volume versus powder charge with bullet weight.

Think about this with me. A 44Mag case is the same length, 1.285", as the 45Colt. The OAL for a bunch of corresponding bullet weights is the same for each cartridge too. With the difference in diameter, .480" to .457" = .023", there is considerably more volume in a 45Colt case than a 44Mag case.

Stay with me here. Bullet seating depth, for the same weight bullet is going to be less with a 45Colt too because of the increased diameter, weight for weight. A 240gr LSWC in the 45Colt is going to be shorter, maybe not much but shorter, than a 240gr LSWC in 44 caliber. Would you agree with this? As long as they are of the same type, i.e. Keith style where the driving bands and lube groove are of equal size and such.

Does this make sense?

So, a bullet that is the same weight, that has less seating depth combined with the greater diameter of the case SHOULD mean that the same weight of powder charge is going to give less pressure in that larger case. Do you agree?

Case in point: 38spl versus 357Mag. I can take a 38spl load and put it in a 357Mag case and while it may not be linear or directly proportional, it is going to be less pressure. Vice-a-versa the pressure would be much greater confining a 357Mag load in a 38spl case.

Help me think this through.

I am not going to take a 300gr 44mag load and put it in a 45Colt case, that isn't the point. I am just trying to work through, to think through, the internal ballistics of case volume/powder charge.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Bingo!

In a heavy framed revolver only, the .45 Colt can do exactly the same thing as the .44 magnum, but at much lower pressures. At the top end, that means the .45 Colt can do at 32,000 CUP ( again in heavy framed guns like the Blackhawk, and Redhawk, F/A), what the .44 magnum can do at 40,000 CUP. That is an obvious advantage for the .45, in terms of gun life, muzzle blast, recoil, etc. The .45 has a much wider cross sectional area for the expanding gasses to push against. Case head thrust against the recoil shield, which is what tends to stretch a frame, is less also.

 

[shovelwrench]

I shot a buck yesterday morning with a 300gr XTP over 24gr of H110, they go about 1350fps. 30yds, and right in the neck, dropped like a ton of bricks.

 

[VAdoublegunner]

When I first got a Blackhawk, then a Redhawk, I felt it essential to experiment with the "Ruger Only" whopper loads. Why? Just because I could! I liked the fact that you could obtain similar ballistics at lower pressures than a 44 Mag. Plus, I thought it would make it more versatile as a hunting choice. So I loaded up 300 gr Sierra and Hornady jacketed bullets to 32k psi levels with huge doses of 296. Big thunder and lightning, no doubt about it!! Some of my 250 gr Hornady loads for the Redhawk did approach the 50k psi levels, at least based on Pearce's (later) published information in Handloader.

Lately, I've been experimenting with Lil'Gun (yeah, I know about the erosion issues) in 45 Colt and like the way it performs. Lower pressures yielding good velocity, and accuracy has been excellent. I like those loads in a Win 94 carbine or 92 rifle. It seems to work best for heavy for caliber bullets and longer barrels.

But you know what? As good as those handgun loads worked for accuracy and as field loads, when I discovered the RCBS 45-270-SAA bullet, that all changed. I load that up to moderately stiff levels, but nothing that is necessarily in the Ruger Only category. Post WWII Colt SAAs should be able to handle them. I use 20.0gr of 2400, which is not a particularly hot load. It will completely penetrate any critter that needs penetrating on the east coast and performs so well for accuracy and lethality that I've not needed anything else in a handgun for quite a while. I don't mind shooting those in my S&W 25-13 at all (952 fps). It is probably one of the best cast bullets ever devised for the 45 Colt.

Now in a carbine, like my Win 94 Trapper, I still like the WW296 loads with 300 or 250 gr jacketed bullets. Those loads easily exceed 45-70 ballistics and are superbly accurate. If I need a heavy hitter, that's what works. It's a handy little rifle to carry too!

If I was in Alaska or out west where I had to worry about big bears chewing on me, I'd load up some 300gr thumpers for the Redhawk and feel well armed. But for the most part, I don't need to rely on those as much anymore. The 270SAA loads will adequately let the air out of and discourage any eastern black bears, I'm fairly certain.

 

[fredj338]

Attaboy. You found one of the most versatile handgun cartridges out there, and now your really getting into the fun stuff.

I also use RCBS 270-SAA Keith-type bullets; cast by me they come to about 285 grains. 18.5 grains of 2400 with this bullet is a good thumper in my 5 1/2" BH.

Never played around with H110/WW296.

You may also want to read Brian Pearce's article in the April 2007 Handloader. It's all about RCBS 270-SAA and the 45 Colt. Lots of good load data, if you're predisposed to this bullet.

This is also my bullet of choice, either solid or HP. With a shallow cup point & cast 25-1, they go about 265gr & expand well @ 1000fps. Unique, 2400, IMR4227 or H110 all work well for 1000fps loads that fall from the cyl. I did have to polish out the tight cyl throats to get better accuracy & less leading., They came in right @ 0.450" & I took them to 0.4155" for use w a 0.452" 280gr+LSWC.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I shot a buck yesterday morning with a 300gr XTP over 24gr of H110, they go about 1350fps. 30yds, and right in the neck, dropped like a ton of bricks.

Shovel,
What was the firearm? I am assuming that the cartridge was the 45Colt.

That is a lot of smack down power, Dude!

 

[Skip Sackett]

VA,
Which carbine action do you believe is stronger? The '92 or Marlin 1894?

That's the next thing that is coming home with me, a rifle in 45Colt of some kind. Maybe a Puma '92 or something. One with deeper rifling so I can shoot cast loads better.

Fred,
Those are awesome looking bullets.

I need a mould like that!

 

[VAdoublegunner]

VA,
Which carbine action do you believe is stronger? The '92 or Marlin 1894?

That's the next thing that is coming home with me, a rifle in 45Colt of some kind. Maybe a Puma '92 or something. One with deeper rifling so I can shoot cast loads better.

I would probably default to the modern '92 action as being stronger. I say that because the Rossi Puma is being chambered in .454 Casull. Winchester had to develop the "Big Bore 94" extra reinforced receivers for a step up in horsepower. So, while the Win '94s seem to handle 32k psi Ruger loads with no problem, at least in my experience, they apparently cannot compete with the 92s twin lug arrangement for strength. I'm not aware of them being chambered in anything near the 454s power level, but since they handle 44 mags just fine then the parallel to revolver strength seems logical. My '92 is a Winchester/Miroku, a very well made rifle, but I can report that its crescent steel buttplate is no fun with the thumper loads!! The Marlin 1894 is also a very strong action, but I havent heard of them handling 454s either. It is a slightly lighter frame than their 1895 45/70 models, which can take some pretty substantial loads.

 

[ms]

Bingo!

In a heavy framed revolver only, the .45 Colt can do exactly the same thing as the .44 magnum, but at much lower pressures. At the top end, that means the .45 Colt can do at 32,000 CUP ( again in heavy framed guns like the Blackhawk, and Redhawk, F/A), what the .44 magnum can do at 40,000 CUP. That is an obvious advantage for the .45, in terms of gun life, muzzle blast, recoil, etc. The .45 has a much wider cross sectional area for the expanding gasses to push against. Case head thrust against the recoil shield, which is what tends to stretch a frame, is less also.

Why is the case head thrust against the recoil shield less?

 

[shovelwrench]

Shovel,
What was the firearm? I am assuming that the cartridge was the 45Colt.

That is a lot of smack down power, Dude!

Blackhawk 7-1/2" 45Colt

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Why is the case head thrust against the recoil shield less?

The .45 Colt can launch the same weight bullet at the same velocity, but at 20% lower chamber pressure (40,000 cup vs. 32,000 cup), which in turn equals less case head thrust.

 

[ms]

Lower pressure against larger bullet base = same velocity as .44 mag.

Lower pressure against larger case diameter = same thrust as .44 mag.

It goes both ways.