House Bill: Disarm the IRS Act

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Ok, now let's talk about the Department of Education. Same arguments?

Almost all of the cabinet level departments have 1811s. Some are OIG (Office Of The Inspector General) who do contract fraud investigations and internal stuff. Then they will typically have SAs who are on the Director's Security detail.

I was flying armed out of DC one time and they have to tell all the armed folks who the other armed folks are on the plane. There was me (FBI), a Postal Inspector, and two dudes who were the security detail for the Director of Health and Human Services, who was also on the flight. The Postal Inspector and I rode in the cattle section, those other fellas rode right up front with the big wigs.
 
IRS Agents are issued handguns and long guns. They've been armed and making arrests since before Capone.

2200 Agents training and qualifying 4 times a year will use about 2 million rounds.

Typically ammo contracts are multi-year affairs. A five year contact would be 10 million rounds (at least) at a whack. They typically don't get it all at once.

I doubt much is stockpiled.

Come on now. You're not supposed to bring facts to a conspiracy theory brain storming session.


Matt Gaetz is probably upset because they are one of the many departments investigating him.
 
These are not the people doing the audits or collecting taxes...

Criminal Investigation is the smallest part of the IRS...they work not only large scale tax evasion, but drug trafficking, money laundering and transnational organized crime...many of these crimes go hand in hand with violent criminals.

They are special agents just like thoee employed by the 75 plus federal agencies that have gun toters...

And...they have been doing it since 1919...

Many of the excess guns are in storage or used for training at FLETC. There is no ammo stockpiled as it gets burned throughout the year in training. It's nothing new or sinister. The esteemed congressman simply does not understand federal law enforcement.

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Please expand on your comment since there is little substance to it.

I would imagine that like the IRS there are other federal agencies that have little to no need to stock pile ammo and firearms but hold some in inventory.

This has zero to do with agencies that have a need for such appropriations like the FBI,Secret Service,Homeland Security,ATF etc.

Others have beat me to it, but this proposal embarrassingly boils down to "defund the police." IRS-CI are criminal investigators who graduated from an academy, fully trained, and need to qualify on their issued firearms on a regular basis. They specialize in money laundering investigations, often targeting terror and organized crime. While executing search or arrest warrants, interviewing subjects, etc they need to be armed. I have had the pleasure of working with IRS-CI agents numerous times throughout my career, and they have been nothing but professional. No need to disarm them.
 
Currently, every tin horn bureaucrat in the federal government has their own Police Department. That should worry every American who believes in limited government. It's not an anti-law enforcement position. Far from it.

∆∆∆ Yes! I bite my tongue to comment further on 'law' enforcement'.
 
I've had the pleasure of working with/having drinks with some of the IRS special agents. To a person they have been professional and sharp.
 
Strange how the FBI was able to manage these responsibilities in the past. Now every alphabet agency is a cop.
The US tax code falls under Title 26 of the United States Code. IRS-CI is the only agency that had jurisdiction over these crimes. The FBI has never had the ability to charge such crimes...and most bag carrying FBI agents have no desire to do so.

No one enjoys paying taxes, so congress made laws that made it illegal to evade taxes....over 100 years ago.

That said, tax crimes are only one layer of financial crimes investigated.

The cases that are elevated to the criminal level are usually the most egregious. These are financial crimes on a level that would blind most people. No one is going to jail over forgetting a comma or filing the wrong form.

This is all much to do about nothing.

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I wonder what "other agencies" are intended. The FBI? The Secret Service? The Department of Defense? I'll guess that there are government lawyers that can make the argument that Feds have the right to bear arms and buy ammo, too.

Given the list of sponsors, I'd comment on this bill's likelihood of passage, but I'd better quit while I'm ahead.

I'll say it :
The chances are ZERO.

Please expand on your comment since there is little substance to it.

I would imagine that like the IRS there are other federal agencies that have little to no need to stock pile ammo and firearms but hold some in inventory.

This has zero to do with agencies that have a need for such appropriations like the FBI,Secret Service,Homeland Security,ATF etc.

The Dept. of Agriculture armed up several years ago.
Swat teams, etc.
 
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...but this proposal embarrassingly boils down to "defund the police."

Indeed, that is the exact mentality.

Strange how the FBI was able to manage these responsibilities in the past. Now every alphabet agency is a cop.

Not strange that that isn't the point, but by your answer we can assume you are calling for the disarming of law enforcement?

Maybe the question should be:

Why are there 120,000 Federal officers?

Perhaps, but as long as they are indeed law enforcement and carry out law enforcement duties they should be armed.

The US tax code falls under Title 26 of the United States Code. IRS-CI is the only agency that had jurisdiction over these crimes. The FBI has never had the ability to charge such crimes...and most bag carrying FBI agents have no desire to do so.

No one enjoys paying taxes, so congress made laws that made it illegal to evade taxes....over 100 years ago.

That said, tax crimes are only one layer of financial crimes investigated.

The cases that are elevated to the criminal level are usually the most egregious. These are financial crimes on a level that would blind most people. No one is going to jail over forgetting a comma or filing the wrong form.

This is all much to do about nothing.

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Exactly, and let's not forget that the crimes investigated are often related to drug trafficking and cartels, human smuggling and terrorism.
 
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Just as an FYI, we go through approx. 1.25 million rounds a year for 2,500 officers.

Each officer is issued a standard dept. handgun.

Retirees get to keep their handgun.

Cadets get issued a handgun.

Spares are kept in inventory to replace those that go down or are taken in as evidence.

SWAT are issued two pistols plus a minimum of two long-guns. Due to the high volume of usage there are additional spares for SWAT.

There are several hundred shotguns and patrol rifles issued. Officers are allowed to purchase their own shotguns and/or patrol rifles. The department issued all ammunition for all issued and approved firearms.

Specialty ammo such as beanbag rounds, sage gun rounds, etc. are purchased by the department.
 
Currently, every tin horn bureaucrat in the federal government has their own Police Department. That should worry every American who believes in limited government. It's not an anti-law enforcement position. Far from it.

A lot of federal agencies are responsible for a lot of federal funds and a lot of entities who receive those funds mis appropriate them. Consequently many of them have their own inspector general offices.

The largest amount I was personally involved with was $12 million. Do you want to go arrest someone for mis appropriating/stealing that amount of money without being armed?
 
Are you recommending that all 120,000 Federal officers be rolled into the FBI? That's roughly 10x what they now have.

Nope, not what I said.

A lot of federal agencies are responsible for a lot of federal funds and a lot of entities who receive those funds mis appropriate them. Consequently many of them have their own inspector general offices.

The largest amount I was personally involved with was $12 million. Do you want to go arrest someone for mis appropriating/stealing that amount of money without being armed?

Here is a real life example of my point: In New Jersey, Division of Youth And Family Services DYFS is responsible for investigating situations concerning child abuse and a variety of other family issues. Very important work. Sometimes situations can become very volatile. DYFS case workers aren't armed and I'm sure most don't want to be. When needed they call upon local LawEnforcement assets for assistance. Police Officers frequently accompany DYFS case workers.

Fast forward, a Department of Education investigator needs to confront a contractor for embezzling government funds. Imagine he doesn't have a swat team of his own. He would have to get assistance from a local agency or the US Marshals to effect an arrest.

My point remains that every government department is run by a politically appointed administrator and many have redundant law enforcement arms answerable only to them. Currently that is the law. I'm just not sure it's the best idea.

Others have beat me to it, but this proposal embarrassingly boils down to "defund the police." IRS-CI are criminal investigators who graduated from an academy, fully trained, and need to qualify on their issued firearms on a regular basis. They specialize in money laundering investigations, often targeting terror and organized crime. While executing search or arrest warrants, interviewing subjects, etc they need to be armed. I have had the pleasure of working with IRS-CI agents numerous times throughout my career, and they have been nothing but professional. No need to disarm them.

I agree with your assessment of Federal Agents. I served as a Detective Bureau Commander and during my career as an investigator and instructor I interacted with Federal Agents frequently. They were, as a group, some of the most dedicated professionals I have ever met. It was an honor and privilege to have worked with them.

I have no interest in disarming any Law Enforcement Agent.

My simple point is that our government has become a bloated and uncontrolled bureaucracy and that a proliferation of independent and uncoordinated Law Enforcement Agencies may not be the best idea. It's just a limited government idea.

Not strange that that isn't the point, but by your answer we can assume you are calling for the disarming of law enforcement?

Where did you get that idea from? Disarm Law Enforcement? Didn't say it, never have. Assume something else.

In theory, I'm opposed to unlimited government growth and I submit that the proliferation of agency specific police agencies to be a symptom of that bloat.

"Unless bureaucracy is constantly resisted, it breaks down representative government and overwhelms democracy." Ronald Reagan
 
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