House Gun

[Florida J Frame]

What are your thoughts on the best choice for a self defense gun when living in a manufactured home with 6" frame walls and the nearest neighbor is only 10 feet away?

 

[bigwheelzip]

No. 4 Buckshot

 

[Ziggy2525]

What are your thoughts on the best choice for a self defense gun when living in a manufactured home with 6" frame walls and the nearest neighbor is only 10 feet away?

Similar to whatever I carry outside the home.

i understand your point about thin walls and close neighbors. If you got caught up in a robbery at the local shop and rob, there’s likely going to be people around, maybe closer than 10’, and no walls. If you can resolve that issue with your regular carry gun without endangering those bystanders, wouldn’t you be able to do that inside your mobile home too.

 

[Backlighting]

A .410 shotgun

 

[Jack Flash]

I would seriously consider a 20 gauge shotgun with #6 shot or smaller. Target loads may be effective and safer for those around you.

 

[LPD256]

Taurus Judge, if you can only have one gun.

 

[Stevens]

I'd try one of the 410/45 revolvers, 410 SD load for inside, or/and HD shotgun.
Steve W

 

[Protected One]

Similar to whatever I carry outside the home.

i understand your point about thin walls and close neighbors. If you got caught up in a robbery at the local shop and rob, there’s likely going to be people around, maybe closer than 10’, and no walls. If you can resolve that issue with your regular carry gun without endangering those bystanders, wouldn’t you be able to do that inside your mobile home too.

While I understand your point the analogy has a hole in it: I won't be using my gun at the stop and rob, but will if someone violates my home.

 

[M1A]

I agree with Ziggy. An idea of safe shooting lanes and your carry.
You may not be at the store, but the situation is about the same.
Are there any kids?
Have a plan for all and practice it.

 

[clang444]

Whatever you get put a laser on it and hit what you are aiming at.

 

[Big Cholla]

Many years ago, I was at a well known defensive firearms martial arts school taking a defensive shotgun instructor course. This subject came up. They had small sections of typical frame/sheetrock walls built for the class to field test. Someone mentioned "how about this new birdshot of non-lead projectiles". The lead instructor got interested and sent someone into town to purchase what could be found in this new type shotgun shells.

We tried out the usual Buck loads down to #4, some bird shot in No. 4 and No. 6 birdshot and got the known results. All this was in 12 ga. with 18.5" and 20" barrels with full choke. Then we tried the goose/duck loads of bismuth if I recall correctly. It was obvious to me that IF overpenetration was an issue, the lesser density of the non-lead loads was the way to go. One load had about 3 different sizes of non-lead shot in the same shot cup. The largest BB was about 0.200" dia. I have forgotten the call out for that load. BUT, it had superb performance on the walls at room distances. Then the energy and velocity dropped off and no further walls were much more than somewhat marked up. I was living in a tract home at the time and the next door houses were about 10 to 12 ft. from my house walls. I switched over to that shotshell loading until moving to a more spacious home.

The take-away lesson from all this is that the non-lead goose loads lose their energy and velocity much more quickly than even #4 buck. But, the load has sufficient energy and velocity to be of great concern to a bad person across the distance of a large room.

I have seen the actual result of an average sized, middle aged man being shot with one shot from a 12 ga. loaded with 00 Buck. He was hit in the left shoulder and chest from about 18 to 20 ft. He was the bad guy and he ran away for about four city blocks before sitting down and waiting for the medics. It was not a 1 shot stop. IIRC, he dropped his handgun, but if he hadn't, he would have been capable of return fire. So, the problem always gets back to bullet placement. Don't get me wrong. I strongly believe that a trained person with a short barrel shotgun in 12, 16, 20 ga. is well equipped to defend his family and home. But, no caliber/ga., velocity, bullet design or type of action is going to be the ultimate solution. The solution always lies in bullet placement and quick follow-up shots.

The issue of using small bird shot for "the safety of others" usually comes up. The big problem is that while up close and personal, the bird shot mass stays together and can be very damaging. But, in larger homes, up and down hallways distances become such that the insignificant mass of the individual birdshot takes over and energy is lost quickly. Heavy clothing and coats can provide very good protection from birdshot at relatively close distances. I for one will never use birdshot in a defensive shotgun.

The other common mistake is to assume that one needs a barrel with no choke whatsoever so we don't have to aim. That is easily proved wrong with some work down range. It has been known for many years that the best defensive shotgun has the tightest choke possible and benefits from being equipped with rifle type sights. IMHO, at least the front sight should be of the 'night sight' like Trijicon's Tritium bead. Think of the problem; it is a home defense firearm. Odds are that it will be low light or totally dark when it is needed to be put to use. Turning on lights to be able to see to aim is not the tactical thing to do. You know your house layout better than any bad guy. Use that to your advantage and have a shotgun that you can aim accurately in the dark.

Mea Culpa. Sorry to get on my high horse. I was once a dedicated Instructor of Home Defense with a shotgun.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I keep a Remington 870 12-gauge shotgun, 21" barrel, IC choke tube, loaded with 2-3/4" heavy field loads of 1-1/4 oz. BB-shot in the home.

Roughly 90 pellets of .17-.18 caliber, approx. 1100 FPS muzzle velocity. Longest distance inside my home is under 40 feet. I doubt that anyone on the receiving end would know the difference between the BB-shot and 00-buck, but I won't worry too much about shooting through multiple walls, or the kids sleeping in the next house.

Read Big Cholla's post above again. He makes some very good points.

 

[Jack Flash]

… The issue of using small bird shot for "the safety of others" usually comes up. The big problem is that while up close and personal, the bird shot mass stays together and can be very damaging. But, in larger homes, up and down hallways distances become such that the insignificant mass of the individual birdshot takes over and energy is lost quickly. …

But the OP isn't asking about a larger home.

I don't think any of us believe bird shot is best for all situations, but for the environment the OP describes, it may be the best compromise.

 

[Echo40]

I'm going to have to agree with the folks suggesting .410 Bore/.45 Long Colt revolvers such as the Taurus Judge or Smith & Wesson Governor.

They just give the best overall balance between power and penetration, with 000 Buckshot being capable of penetrating deeply enough to reach the vitals of an attacker and deal massive damage in to process without exiting out the back. If you miss, then the shot may penetrate the walls, but it will lose a lot of energy in the process and become deformed in the process.

A larger bore Shotgun is more likely to penetrate walls, even with substantially smaller shot, and a pistol of any caliber will assuredly penetrate walls on a miss with enough energy to be deadly.

 

[URIT]

I have my CCW - 3953 or 4053 near me all day. At night, my daily carry gun plays backup to my Governor which I keep in a RapidSafe.

I have added security bars to exterior doors and BR doors to give me added time to call 911 and prepare to defend life and limb.

 

[scooter123]

Remington 870 loaded with 5 rounds of #1 or # 4 Buck, nuff said.

 

[Telecaster]

I'm going to have to agree with the folks suggesting .410 Bore/.45 Long Colt revolvers such as the Taurus Judge or Smith & Wesson Governor.

They just give the best overall balance between power and penetration, with 000 Buckshot being capable of penetrating deeply enough to reach the vitals of an attacker and deal massive damage in to process without exiting out the back. If you miss, then the shot may penetrate the walls, but it will lose a lot of energy in the process and become deformed in the process.

A larger bore Shotgun is more likely to penetrate walls, even with substantially smaller shot, and a pistol of any caliber will assuredly penetrate walls on a miss with enough energy to be deadly.

Maybe...
YouTube

 

[diyj98]

I think a 12 gauge loaded with number 4 or 6 shot indoors would make excellent home defense. At the average room or home hallway distance it’s pretty devastating. Fortunately I’ve never shot a human with a shotgun, but I know the damage done to various animals at close range.

 

[Protected One]

Many years ago, I was at a well known defensive firearms martial arts school taking a defensive shotgun instructor course. This subject came up. They had small sections of typical frame/sheetrock walls built for the class to field test. Someone mentioned "how about this new birdshot of non-lead projectiles". The lead instructor got interested and sent someone into town to purchase what could be found in this new type shotgun shells.

We tried out the usual Buck loads down to #4, some bird shot in No. 4 and No. 6 birdshot and got the known results. All this was in 12 ga. with 18.5" and 20" barrels with full choke. Then we tried the goose/duck loads of bismuth if I recall correctly. It was obvious to me that IF overpenetration was an issue, the lesser density of the non-lead loads was the way to go. One load had about 3 different sizes of non-lead shot in the same shot cup. The largest BB was about 0.200" dia. I have forgotten the call out for that load. BUT, it had superb performance on the walls at room distances. Then the energy and velocity dropped off and no further walls were much more than somewhat marked up. I was living in a tract home at the time and the next door houses were about 10 to 12 ft. from my house walls. I switched over to that shotshell loading until moving to a more spacious home.

The take-away lesson from all this is that the non-lead goose loads lose their energy and velocity much more quickly than even #4 buck. But, the load has sufficient energy and velocity to be of great concern to a bad person across the distance of a large room.

I have seen the actual result of an average sized, middle aged man being shot with one shot from a 12 ga. loaded with 00 Buck. He was hit in the left shoulder and chest from about 18 to 20 ft. He was the bad guy and he ran away for about four city blocks before sitting down and waiting for the medics. It was not a 1 shot stop. IIRC, he dropped his handgun, but if he hadn't, he would have been capable of return fire. So, the problem always gets back to bullet placement. Don't get me wrong. I strongly believe that a trained person with a short barrel shotgun in 12, 16, 20 ga. is well equipped to defend his family and home. But, no caliber/ga., velocity, bullet design or type of action is going to be the ultimate solution. The solution always lies in bullet placement and quick follow-up shots.

The issue of using small bird shot for "the safety of others" usually comes up. The big problem is that while up close and personal, the bird shot mass stays together and can be very damaging. But, in larger homes, up and down hallways distances become such that the insignificant mass of the individual birdshot takes over and energy is lost quickly. Heavy clothing and coats can provide very good protection from birdshot at relatively close distances. I for one will never use birdshot in a defensive shotgun.

The other common mistake is to assume that one needs a barrel with no choke whatsoever so we don't have to aim. That is easily proved wrong with some work down range. It has been known for many years that the best defensive shotgun has the tightest choke possible and benefits from being equipped with rifle type sights. IMHO, at least the front sight should be of the 'night sight' like Trijicon's Tritium bead. Think of the problem; it is a home defense firearm. Odds are that it will be low light or totally dark when it is needed to be put to use. Turning on lights to be able to see to aim is not the tactical thing to do. You know your house layout better than any bad guy. Use that to your advantage and have a shotgun that you can aim accurately in the dark.

Mea Culpa. Sorry to get on my high horse. I was once a dedicated Instructor of Home Defense with a shotgun.

I didn't see a high horse, just some solid advice on home defense.

 

[686-380]

Myself, I went down the 5.7 X 28mm/suppressor rabbit hole. I currently have my PS90, with a Dead Air Mask suppressor attached. My ammunition is subsonic 55 grain (SB193).

My testing with ballistic gelatin indicates adequate penetration and I am pretty confident any discharges will be rendered harmless after the first or second wall.

Save your hearing and mitigate over penetration simultaneously.

It set me back a pretty penny however. The ammunition is not legal to own everywhere and ridiculously expensive.

 

[OLDSTER]

Definitely a short barreled 12 ga. pump shotgun loaded with BBs. The last sound a perp. might hear is the "Clack-Clack" of a pump shotgun.

 

[Echo40]

Maybe...
YouTube

If this is a link to a YouTube video of someone shooting through nothing but drywall with absolutely no studs, insulation, or any form of exterior siding, save it. I've seen them before and they're just not accurate because actual walls inside of houses aren't completely hallow, and exterior walls are most often lined with some form of siding. So unless you're living in a prefabricated house that has yet to be completed, it's not a realistic representation.

Otherwise, if it's a video about how the Judge sucks in which the creator cherry-picks scenarios where it would obviously fail like shooting long-distance, using crappy ammo because "he couldn't find any" of the good stuff at Wal-Mart, and pits it against magnum handguns or 12 Gauge shotguns, then great, whatever. I don't feel like arguing over it, so he's right, it would totally suck if the distances between rooms in your house are in excess of 20 yards, you loaded it with crappy ammo you bought at Wal-Mart because you couldn't be bothered to shop for good stuff online, and live inside of a brick house in the middle of nowhere where more powerful firearms wouldn't be a liability.

 

[fatcat3]

While it is good to consider what happens to rounds that go through the target or miss all together, the #1 objective is to stop a home invader. for me that means buckshot for a shotgun. I'll worry aboyt everything else after. While I'm wired for sound, pooping my PJ's, shaking like a leaf, and my hand now a 5 thumbs each, I don't want to be playing with a handgun. 3 points of solid contact vs 1 or 2 unsteady one, give me a long gun every time. YMMV. Of course I am lucky and can shoot spiders off the walls with a 30-06 if I so choose without no worry about neighbors.

 

[clang444]

The other common mistake is to assume that one needs a barrel with no choke whatsoever so we don't have to aim. That is easily proved wrong with some work down range. It has been known for many years that the best defensive shotgun has the tightest choke possible...

I'm going to have to disagree with this. With buckshot, full choke may tighten up groups sometimes, but usually not by much. You will probably see far more variation in shot spread between different brands and loads. There's many of examples of actual testing online, a simple test was done by the box o truth guys that is a quick read. I've also tested this myself, but for deer hunting. When I lived in NJ we could only hunt deer with shotguns during firearm season (maybe we could use our black powder too, it's been a long time). Usually used slugs, but kept the buckshot for foggy mornings. I was with my Uncle on one of these mornings when he got a big buck using buckshot out of his brand new Winchester Model 23 SxS from about 25 yards.

Non-lead shot was also mentioned. If steel shot is included, you never want tighter than a Modified choke using steel shot. Tungsten, another non-lead shot, usually performs better in Modified or more open chokes. Full chokes tend to put a low density hole in the middle of the pattern.

It's not unheard of for some people to load a combination of buck shot shells and slugs in self defense shotguns. Slugs usually work best in Improved Cylinder or Cylinder chokes and there are some types of slugs that should not be shot from a full choke barrel.

The longest shot inside a house might be 40' in a big house down a hallway. Shot pattern will be less than 10" for just about any buckshot load/choke combo, so most anything will do for most people as long as you are happy with penetration & stopping power. For further distances, you migth want to check out the hunting forums for guys that have to hunt deer with a shotgun. Must be someone still occassionly hunting deer with buckshot.

 

[Doug M.]

What ever you shoot best. The first step if it comes to shots fired is to stop the offender. Period. Everything else is a side issue in that moment. In addition, if you hit the offender in an effective area, the risk of penetrating the offender and then your walls is much decreased.

That said: The real first step is to make your home unattractive to offenders. If they never try to get in, you have won. ("To win without fighting is best." - Sun Tzu.) You may be stuck with mobile home community rules that make some of this harder, so YMMV. A 6' minimum fence, with the gates always padlocked except to go through them. Flood lights over the doors or other likely points of entry. Some prefer them to be on motion detectors. Your choice.

Upgrade your doors and windows. Never ever have your doors unlocked except to pass through them. I like dogs. Any yapper provides notice, or should. They tend to be much more alert to stuff than we are. I prefer bigger dogs, in part because the sound of a big dog barking is more likely to discourage offender (a bite from a small dog is unpleasant; a bite from a 100-150 pound dog is serious, and they are a lot harder to stop than a small dog if the offender is motivated). I like Ridgebacks, Rotts, Boerboels, Bullmastiffs and the like. For my money, against a motivated offender, the Shepard breeds are too small as I don't have other cops backing up the dog and me. I have seen offenders fight off Shepards. No thanks. (A pair of them is a very different story. 2 protective dogs against one offender is a real exciting event, for the offender.) (We had a Belgian - she was a good dog, and protective, but too small. Her "brother" was the dog in my photo - a Rott X Fila at 125 pounds. Filas are really dangerous to strangers, and you have to be utterly dedicated to the dog and a specific lifestyle if you have one. They tend to be great with anyone (or any other pet) that is in the household full time; anyone else simply can't come in unless the dog is crated. Unless you want to live like that, don't get a Fila.)

If one looks at the information available, it is well established that a an AR with 5.56X45 DUTY AMMO (not ball) is far less likely to penetrate household walls than any other effective firearm, including pistols with duty ammo. (Duty ammo is that which has passed the FBI testing standards; google "Dr. Gary Roberts amo recommendations" for some good information.) The folklore and military training on this issue are flat out wrong. Ball ammo should not be used for any purpose except training except in an emergency.

 

[Justin T]

The last sound a perp. might hear is the "Clack-Clack" of a pump shotgun.

No. Just no. The racking thing is nearly as bad as uncle joe’s double barrel shots in the air thing.

 

[wetdog1911]

No. Just no. The racking thing is nearly as bad as uncle joe’s double barrel shots in the air thing.

The racking sound should come between the 1st and 2nd round, not before the 1st. Before the 1st, just the sound of the safety being disengaged (AK is really good for this, they are anything but quiet), but no clack--clack.

Rob

 

[Telecaster]

You don’t have to watch Paul Harrell shoot his meat target with a .410 revolver if you don’t want to (video above), but you might enjoy seeing the results compared to .357 hollow point SD rounds.

 

[SMSgt]

My thought is don't miss. The tool used becomes irrelevant. There is no other 100% viable answer other than to not shoot.

Home . . . Stop & Rob . . . Either you are willing to protect yourself with lethal force or you are not. The where is pointless.

 

[686-380]

I think the OP is wise to ask his question. Now is the PERFECT time to get the information he needs, before he needs it.

For those of you who don't consider over penetration to be a concern, I submit this:

www.nobackstopnoshot.com