How deep to set a SWC without a crimp groove?

[Triggernosis]

Specifically this one: Hornady .358 swchp - Google Search
The Hornady manual only gives a minimum OAL for .357 Magnum and that would put the bullet well down into the case past the knurled section.

 

[Hang-Fire Hank]

NOT A GOOD IDEA

I wouldn't shoot a 357 thru either a revolver or tube fed rifle if the bullet hadn't been crimped at the case mouth. Not sure about a heavy taper crimp. Maybe that would work, but test carefully.

Guaranteed without a crimp, the unfired bullets remaining in your rev chambers will move forward, possibly tying up the cylinder rotation. In a tube fed rifle, the recoil will dangerously push the bullets down into the cases of the remaining cartridges in the tube, creating extremely high pressure!

Hank M.

 

[Triggernosis]

Perhaps I should save these bullets for plinking with the .38 then.

 

[Bosquebass]

I seat those bullets to the top of the knurled part and lightly roll crimp. I haven't had any trouble with them backing out doing it that way.
The bullets are swaged and soft so you don't want to push them too hard. Hornady 9th shows them at 950 fps max and I wouldn't push them as fast as that.

 

[Bosquebass]

Perhaps I should save these bullets for plinking with the .38 then.

That's where I use mine. It's a good shooting bullet at target velocities.

 

[lebomm]

Go ahead and give 'em a moderate roll crimp with maybe .060" of knurl showing. These bullets are soft enough to allow it without buckling the case. Just make sure the OAL doesn't exceed cylinder length and keep velocity below about 1000 fps.

Larry

 

[H Richard]

That bullet is inappropriate for a magnum load. There are plenty of other bullets available. Use them for standard or target velocity 38 loads.

 

[rockquarry]

Use a taper crimp die. Seat the bullet where you want it and put just enough crimp on it to prevent movement. This will require a little experimentation, but once done, it won't have to be repeated.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Uh, depends upon your definition & the significance of "minimum"

Specifically this one: Hornady .358 swchp - Google Search
The Hornady manual only gives a minimum OAL for .357 Magnum and that would put the bullet well down into the case past the knurled section.

Significance of the "minimum" length has to do with pressure concerns.

You can load "long" to basically (within reason) whatever O.A.L. will correspond to the cannelure and "fit" in the revolver cylinder. You might loose a few f.p.s., but...

Cheers!

 

[Nevada Ed]

I figured to let a few post before I said any thing.

First off, if you see a bullet and its body and tip...........
you should be able to figure out where it needs to "FIT" in the case.
I am not slapping hands here............. but one needs to have a basic
knowledge of the correct OAL of a bullets maximum and minimum settings.

1.58" is the maximum....
you have the minimum...........if you have ANY loading manuals.

Do what you think is right.........
it is only a stinking lead bullet.

 

[lebomm]

[QUOTE=STORMINORMAN;

You can load "long" to basically (within reason) whatever O.A.L. will correspond to the cannelure and "fit" in the revolver cylinder. You might loose a few f.p.s., but...


Norman; the Hornady swaged SWC has no cannelure.

Larry

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Larry: you are 100% correct...!

Larry: You are correct, and neither does their Cowboy 140gr... Remember, the OP was talking about the bullet being "...well down in the case PAST THE KNURLED SECTION".

Nor do the majority of the many plated rounds (but not all)...

But many cast bullets do, and some even have more than one. My point was that the "minimum" is just that: if there is, as Nevada Ed points out, a "body and a tip" one should be able to see how much of the bullet actually needs to be in the case and if it does not approach the minimum for that specific bullet, just load these revolver rounds a bit "long".

Most of the time a correct and minimum expansion will provide enough neck tension that an overly aggressive roll crimp (if any) won't be needed, except in true magnum loadings.

Cheers!

 

[BruceM]

Use a taper crimp die. Seat the bullet where you want it and put just enough crimp on it to prevent movement. This will require a little experimentation, but once done, it won't have to be repeated.

Taper crimp dies were never meant to be used to apply a crimp which will prevent bullet movement because taper crimps are not suited for that. They are meant to remove case mouth flare required for proper bullet seating. Seat the bullet so the shoulder is just enough below the case mouth to allow you to apply a small amount of roll crimp. This is not an unusual practice as the 173 grain Lyman 358429 must be seated and crimped in this manner in order for the loaded round to fit in the cylinder of the N-Frame S&W M27 and M28 revolvers along with their pre-model number counterparts.

This bullet is designed for low velocity loads so there is little chance of the bullet jumping the crimp if there is the proper amount of neck tension to begin with. The heavy lifting in preventing bullet setback or crimp jumping in .44 magnum and lesser rounds is provided by neck tension and not crimping. The crimp in those revolver rounds is the last line of defense not the first in preventing bullet movement. The sizing die and expander work hand in hand to accomplish this. The sizer must reduce the case diameter with all brands of brass to the point that an expander is necessary to increase the case I.D. slightly. Then an expander which is at least .002" smaller than the bullet diameter is used to open up the case I.D.. In heavy kicking rounds the expander might need to be .003" smaller than bullet diameter. Not flaring the case mouth is not a substitute for proper case neck expansion.

Bruce

 

[Engineer1911]

Factory lead swaged bullets are so soft that a roll crimp can be used with the bullet shoulder sticking out of the case mouth. The case won't buckle because the is no cannelure.

These bullets fired at 357 mag velocities will quickly convert a 0.357" rifled barrel to a 0.347" smoothbore. You now have a training opportunity in lead removal from a gun barrel.

 

[Wise_A]

I would leave a bit of shoulder exposed--.060" sounds right. That's about the thickness of a quarter. Then I would very lightly crimp with whatever my normal .38 Spl / .357 Magnum die was. And then I would not load it to .357 Magnum pressures because it's a swaged lead bullet and not a hardcast.

Since you're not loading it to .357 Magnum pressures, you'd also be fine seating the shoulder to the depth of the case mouth and then roll crimping over it. My objection to that method is that you'd be asking for the case mouth to shave lead from the shoulder, to gain a crimp you don't need.

For a full-power LSWC load, you want a hardcast lead bullet. That's about 18 Brinell. They're available from Summers Enterprises (which only makes 18 Brinell bullets), and Missouri Bullet (look under .357 Magnum and not .38 Spl).

 

[rwsmith]

That is a swaged bullet......

it's very soft and will lead in revolvers over around 1000 fps. Worse in rifles.

Get a cast semi wadcutter. I'd prefer coated. The same crimp applies as people mentioned above would work.

If you load them in a tubular mag and don't want them pushing deeper, get an 'M' die.

 

[gnystrom]

If those were mine I would load then into 38 cases with a light taper crimp. I suspect these are soft lead so be prepared to do some lead removal from your barrel if you get the velocity a bit too high. Frankly I gave up on lead and switched to plated bullets years ago.
Lots of people worry about taper crimps but I shoot tens of thousands of plated bullets both 38 sp. and light loaded .357's using a light taper crimp. I have never had any issues at all. In fact, a heavy taper crimp will cause a lot more problems than a light one.
YMMV, my 2¢