how hot is this 357 mag load?

[k53]

OK, so I inharted a model 19-3 in 4" from my dad. He did a lot of hunting, and also compation shooting back in the late 60's early 70's he also did a lot of reloading, and did all his old loads. Well I have a lot of loaded WC and SWC in 38spc, and 357 may, that seem fairly mild. I also have a lot of 357 JHP loads that I'm guessing was for hunting. This was his sidearm for hunting. The data listed on one box is this....150 jHP 15gr 2400 and CCI mag primers also a load date of 11/1970. So looking around I see loads close to this, but not the same. I'm thinking its a pretty hot load, but I'm new to the reloading and 357 world. Anyone fill me in before I shot these. Thanks

 

[Iggy]

Sounds like the old Elmer Keith loads.

That gets you pretty close to the original 357 Magnum loads.

I wouldn't shoot too many of them out of a Model 19, but a 27 or 28 would work pretty well.

 

[dirty gary]

I agree with Iggy, thats a pretty warm load for a Model 19. Used to shoot a similar load in a 19, had to tighten all the screws when done. Figured better to run milder rounds in the 19, hot stuff in the 27.

 

[k53]

OK, thanks. So im guessing that one or two, shot once in a great wile would be OK on the 19?... but dont go crazy with them would be doable? Most of the time Im planning on shooting 38, or mild 357 loads.. Just for target, or plinking use, but I think most of us at least once and a wile, want to fire off a cannon.

 

[brucev]

OK, thanks. So im guessing that one or two, shot once in a great wile would be OK on the 19?... but dont go crazy with them would be doable? Most of the time Im planning on shooting 38, or mild 357 loads.. Just for target, or plinking use, but I think most of us at least once and a wile, want to fire off a cannon.

Handloads can be "interesting." Depending on who loaded them and how attentive they were to wise reloading practices, handloads can be very "interesting." The handloads produced by your father were very likely developed for use in the Model 19 that you inherited. Most likely they will be fine for use in that revolver. The .357 Mag. load data you provided is full-power. You could shoot such a load in a N-frame S&W indefinitely. In your Model 19 it would be best to not go overboard and fire it with such loads for hundreds and hundreds of rounds. If you want to shoot really heavy .357 Mag. loads routinely, it would be best to look around and find a nice Model 27 or 28. A 586-686 would also be very good as the L-frame series was developed specifically with the routine firing of .357 Mag. in mind. For just general target shooting/range use, etc., many people find that the various .38 Special loads are very useful. JMHO. Sincerely. brucev.

 

[SonnyCrockett]

I just made my first 357 mag loads w 2400..I am starting with 14G of 2400 behind 158G FMJs....seems pretty popular so Im going to give it a try today

 

[tjpopkin]

The 15gr load is fairly hot, but not abusive. My Model 19 and my early 66 would not allow ejection with this load....The cases had to be extracted by using a leather mallet on the ejector rod...The Model 27 allowed these to nearly fall out of the chambers.
It seems like in the lighter revolvers, the cases(brass) set back on firing because, in some cases, I could not open the cylinder.
My normal load is 14 gr. 2400 with a 125gr. XTP or Montana Gold HP.
Terry

 

[79ipa]

I have run 14.5 grains with a 158.

 

[all357mag]

The load is fine, but don't feed your 19 a steady diet of these.

 

[Dave T]

Just a cautionary note but I don't think anyone can say for certain the load is fine based on the information given. I've been reminded lately during choreographing of load development results how much seating depth and crimp can affect pressure. Without knowing this these 15g loads could be too hot. If it was me, I'd save them for an N-frame or maybe a Ruger single action. My $.02 worth.

Dave

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Back in the day I ran 15 grs#2400 behind a cast 168 gr. swc. Even killed a buck with that load in my 4" 19. Still have the 19 and its in good shape. Nowdays I reserve that load to the N-frames and the 19 sleeps in the safe.

 

[k53]

Back in the day I ran 15 grs#2400 behind a cast 168 gr. swc. Even killed a buck with that load in my 4" 19. Still have the 19 and its in good shape. Nowdays I reserve that load to the N-frames and the 19 sleeps in the safe.

Well I know this was his only 357, and he did carry this as his sidearm wile hunting, so im assuming this was his hunting carry load. I have a 50 round box of it, and a part box of it, and it was loaded in '70, and a duble speedloader full of the same load, so im guessing he did not fire it alot... Probably mixed up 100 rounds to use as a hunting round. Ill fire off one or two to see how it shoots, and file them away for when I need a heavy hitter.

 

[GF1]

That's a heavy load, but should not be a dangerous one. As others here have said, I would not feed a Model 19 a steady diet of these.

I use that same charge under jacketed 158 gr bullets as my standard fodder in my Model 27, a much stronger/larger revolver. They are safe in my gun; with 150 grain bullets, there should be more margin yet.

Another factor is that 2400 bought in 1970 was slightly slower than that made today, hence should be lower pressure than the current load of the same powder. The big question, with any second hand handloads, is to the discipline and experience of the loader.

 

[NYlakesider]

Handloads can be "interesting." Depending on who loaded them and how attentive they were to wise reloading practices, handloads can be very "interesting." The handloads produced by your father were very likely developed for use in the Model 19 that you inherited. Most likely they will be fine for use in that revolver. The .357 Mag. load data you provided is full-power. You could shoot such a load in a N-frame S&W indefinitely. In your Model 19 it would be best to not go overboard and fire it with such loads for hundreds and hundreds of rounds. If you want to shoot really heavy .357 Mag. loads routinely, it would be best to look around and find a nice Model 27 or 28. A 586-686 would also be very good as the L-frame series was developed specifically with the routine firing of .357 Mag. in mind. For just general target shooting/range use, etc., many people find that the various .38 Special loads are very useful. JMHO. Sincerely. brucev.

Bolded above! How right you are.

Years backI had a cherry 27 8 3/8 that was super accurate and a joy to shoot. At a much younger age I used to prefer warmer loads, guess it was the macho thing to do.

Was at the range one day and a good friend and I ended up side by side and we were trading guns and loads. He had some stout loads for his Model 19 and he gave me a few rounds to try in my 27. Boom Boom BOOME and a violent recoil and jammed gun. Had a hard time getting the gun to open up

Egged out the one chamber and bent the crane. Took the rest of his ammo home weighted it and took one suspicious round apart. Yep no powder I had shot what appeared to be an over max load that had double the powder charge. Sent the gun back to the factory, but got rid of it soon after. The gun just was not the same. My buddy and I split the cost of the repair.

For the record considering what it done to my N frame I’m glad it went off there and not in his lighter K 19. Still it was an interesting time and yes the other fellow is still a friend.

 

[Old 44 Guy]

Yeah, That load is one of Elmer's warmer ones, for sure.

 

[k53]

OK a little delayed but going to jump back into this.

I'm thinking of just pulling the bullets on this. Now if I do, will the bullets be Abe to be
Reused?

 

[swampersand]

Good thinking. Yes they can be reused if pulled without scarring the bullets. While you're at it, if you haven't spent much time with S&W revolvers, why don't you just have someone look over your 19 just to make sure everything is in order. Have fun.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have to disagree with most of the posts here. The current anemic lawyer driven load data on the Alliant site right now lists a charge of 14.8gr 2400 under a 158gr Speer GDHP bullet. Those loads using a charge of 15.0gr 2400 are just fine and will not harm your M19 especially since they are built with 150gr bullets, not 158gr bullets. The loads that were cracking forcing cones on K frame revolvers used a 125gr bullet, not a 158gr bullet. No reason to pull the bullets, sure the load is warm but it's safe. Just remember, those rounds were made for that gun by your Dad and I'm sure he shot more than a few in his M19. I'm guessing the M19 is just fine so that very same ammo did not harm the revolver.

As for needing to tighten all the screws on a Model 19 after shooting a similar load, sorry but I find that extremely hard to believe. I have never heard of all the screws in a revolver coming undone by shooting warm ammo, even if the revolver was defective. Even a Colt SAA wouldn't need all the screws tightened after shooting similar loads. (but maybe a few lol)

 

[k53]

I have to disagree with most of the posts here. The current anemic lawyer driven load data on the Alliant site right now lists a charge of 14.8gr 2400 under a 158gr Speer GDHP bullet. Those loads using a charge of 15.0gr 2400 are just fine and will not harm your M19 especially since they are built with 150gr bullets, not 158gr bullets. The loads that were cracking forcing cones on K frame revolvers used a 125gr bullet, not a 158gr bullet. No reason to pull the bullets, sure the load is warm but it's safe. Just remember, those rounds were made for that gun by your Dad and I'm sure he shot more than a few in his M19. I'm guessing the M19 is just fine so that very same ammo did not harm the revolver.

As for needing to tighten all the screws on a Model 19 after shooting a similar load, sorry but I find that extremely hard to believe. I have never heard of all the screws in a revolver coming undone by shooting warm ammo, even if the revolver was defective. Even a Colt SAA wouldn't need all the screws tightened after shooting similar loads. (but maybe a few lol)

Ya, this 19 is pretty tight. its been shot a lot, and is still in great shape. I looked it over good in the forcing cone, and top strap area when I got it. Becouse of all the talk and all... And looks like new. Dad took care of his guns, but he also wasnt afraid to use them, and use them a lot!! My K53 I got from him a handfull of years ago when he ws still alive, had digested so many fullhouse Jet loads, that he had to have the barrell turned and repinned! And he said he shot a TON of Jets in those early years with it!!! This 19 saw a lot of target shooting. A lot of 38spc WC loads, and 357 SWC targets loads, but it was also his carry, and hunting sidearm, so it injested a lot stronger also. Some would say its just broken in.