How many rounds before you trust?

[otis24]

I’ve got a new to me CZ Rami 9mm. I’ve experienced several FTFs/FTEs. My first trip out was with Fiocchi 115gr. Not sure if I used FMJ or JHP. Second trip out I used Remington 115 FMJ. A couple of failures. Today I cleaned and lubed, paying particular attention to oiling the guide rod. It is a two piece guide rod with an internal spring. I ran 50 rounds of Federal 115 FMJ with no failures.

I will make it out to the range again this week. I have about two mags full of Fiocchi 115gr FMJs and a mag full of Fiocchi 115gr JHPs that I will put through it.

I really like this pistol. If you’ve experienced failures in the past, how many trouble free rounds before you feel that you can trust a firearm without second guessing it?

 

[Valmet]

I’ve long been a Glock guy and in the 20+ years I’ve been ccw’ing it’s primarily been a Glock. A few mags of the EDC ammo and I’m good.

 

[AJ]

I worked with several different law enforcement agencies that used our ranges when I was stationed in Calif. They did not let a gun go on the street until it had 250 trouble free rounds through it.

 

[otis24]

My pistol was manufactured during the last year of production, 2020. I don’t know what the round count is. If the previous owner/owners experienced the failures that I have, I can surmise that they probably got frustrated and dumped it right away. It doesn’t look like it has been fired much. I’m guessing that I’ve only put approximately 300 rounds through it. The last 50 have been trouble free. From this point forward, I’m keeping count of rounds, type, and any failures. I’ve never ordered bulk ammo before, but thinking I may order a box of 500 FMJs. It would also be a good opportunity to order the self-defense ammo I want and get the free shipping.

 

[Krogen]

I think AJ is spot-on. 250 rounds of hiccup free operation should be good. From a confidence standpoint, though, in my mind it depends on the history before you got those 250 trouble-free rounds.

Did it run ok after a couple magazines of trouble? Did it mess up sporadically for 20 or 30 magazines worth and then behave? Did it work OK initially, then start messing up and finally run fine for the last 250 rounds?

In other words, if it doesn't give you confidence that it's not a latent troublemarker, IMNHO you just can't count on it.

 

[LVSteve]

CZs typically prefer hotter ammo. My go to choice for break-in/plinking is 124gr S&B. Czech ammo for a Czech gun. Being a smaller gun, I would bet that RAMI is also unforgiving of any grip weakness.

 

[BB57]

200 rounds of your intended carry ammunition, with zero failures using the magazines you intend to carry.

I would not carry 9mm FMJ and reliability with it doesn’t tell you much as many pistols will feed FMJ reliably and then choke on hollow points.

That said a new pistol often requires anywhere from 50 to 500 rounds to break in and deliver 100% reliability, so that 200 round count may not start for awhile.

With revolvers you can establish reliability in 50-100 rounds with the big issues being light strikes, bullets backing out of cases under recoil and partially burned or unburned powder grains getting stuck under the ejector star.

 

[otis24]

I intend to start with FMJ first. If everything goes well, I will run some inexpensive hollow points. If no failures, I will settle on a carry round and put a couple hundred through it before I think I can trust it.

 

[AJ]

I intend to start with FMJ first. If everything goes well, I will run some inexpensive hollow points. If no failures, I will settle on a carry round and put a couple hundred through it before I think I can trust it.

The 250 rounds that I mentioned were duty rounds. Not training rounds.

 

[BB57]

I intend to start with FMJ first. If everything goes well, I will run some inexpensive hollow points. If no failures, I will settle on a carry round and put a couple hundred through it before I think I can trust it.

It’s the cheapest way to break a new pistol in.

 

[cololab]

Good recommendations from previous posters. Not that you are doing so, but make certain you're not contributing to the the occasional FTF/FTE by inadvertently not maintaining a proper grip.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I think that I would want to know why a handgun malfunctioned and why it wasn't going to do it again. I have a lot of revolvers and a few autoloaders that have never malfunctioned, and most of them are chambered for cartridges that are up to defending my bod. I always carry at least one of them, and do not depend on questionable arms - I don't have to, and you probably don't have to, either.

 

[swsig]

The critical factor is to determine that your choice of self-defense rounds works perfectly. Your choice of range ammo does not have to work perfectly. A failure at the range is merely annoying. A failure in a self-defense situation could be fatal. I will not carry any self-defense ammo unless it works perfectly for a minimum of 200 consecutive rounds, and I usually test it beyond that. Is it expensive to test with that much ammo? You bet, especially when you may have to test more than one brand. But what is your life and the lives of your loved ones worth? In that context, the price of ammo you test is a bargain.

 

[31FordA]

I generally run 300 to 400 rounds thru a pistol before I carry it. Generally two thirds ball and one third JHP. I run a bunch of mags loaded with a random mix of ball and various JHP rounds. If the gun runs smoothly with a variety of ammo then I’ll carry it.

 

[cracker57]

even after 200 rounds of my choice of SD ammo, I still shoot my SD ammo every now and then do to bullet set back and for piece of mind knowing it still works.

 

[A10]

Couple hunnerd of SD ammo. Some customs/semi production guns may need more. I think I heard Les Brown's need about 500. I'd do the first half with hardball and the second half with SD.

Revolvers not so much. If they go Bang they are pretty much good to go. Mebbe 50 rounds just to make sure there aren't any issues.

 

[RobzGuns]

I intend to start with FMJ first. If everything goes well, I will run some inexpensive hollow points. If no failures, I will settle on a carry round and put a couple hundred through it before I think I can trust it.

I'm another one from the 250 round camp, but it needs to be 250 consecutive trouble free rounds, before I run Hollow Points through it.

My preferred weight is 124gr and my preferred SD brand is Speer Gold Dot, so 250 consecutive trouble free rounds of 124gr FMJ (usually LAX, or Norma), then 20 trouble free rounds of 124gr Speer GD (from their 50 round box LE line).

 

[BB57]

The critical factor is to determine that your choice of self-defense rounds works perfectly. Your choice of range ammo does not have to work perfectly. A failure at the range is merely annoying. A failure in a self-defense situation could be fatal. I will not carry any self-defense ammo unless it works perfectly for a minimum of 200 consecutive rounds, and I usually test it beyond that. Is it expensive to test with that much ammo? You bet, especially when you may have to test more than one brand. But what is your life and the lives of your loved ones worth? In that context, the price of ammo you test is a bargain.

I agree it’s worth it.

As I have noted in other threads I deviate from the heard and hand load my self defense ammo. It’s a huge cost savings. For example I can get 124 gr Sig V-crown bullets for around $.30 each, with .07 per primer and about $.03 for powder. That’s $.40 per round not counting brass. If you shop around a bit and buy in quantity you can find 9mm brass for around $.12 each, raising the cost of handloaded ammo using all new components to $.52 per round. Metallurgically speaking there is no difference between new and once fired brass which means you can reasonably use once fired brass for your self defense loads reducing the average cost to $.46 per round.

That’s $23 per box of 50, not much more than 115 gr FMJ range ammo at current price gouging prices.

It’s also loaded to my high levels of precision and loaded for optimum performance in my handgun(s) based on my own chronograph and gel test results.

More importantly it isn’t “self defense” ammunition, it’s just my normal range ammo. Over time that adds up to thousands of rounds used for reliability testing.

If you are in the “never use handloads for self defense” camp, using a load where the bullet is available as a handloading component allows you to match factory ammunition performance and dimensions and then have an excellent facsimile of your self defense load to practice with.

——

Even when I use factory ammo, I will expend my carry ammo on each range trip, ensuring what’s in the gun is fresh and adding to the cumulative total of ammo expended in reliability testing.

 

[max503]

I'm switching from carrying factory loads to carrying reloads in my Glock 42. That way it will be an on-going "test". I shoot my G42 a lot.

I noticed some of the factory loads I was using were getting seated deeper with just a few trips from magazine to chamber.

You unload your gun weekly or so to clean it, don't you?

Apparently, the trip from magazine to chamber was causing some of the projectiles to get set-back deeper into the case.

That doesn't happen with my reloads.

 

[Doug M.]

Dr. Roberts recommends buying a case (1000 rounds) of duty/carry ammo and testing with 500 rounds. If there are any malfs, start testing over.

I have done similar with a couple of pistols. My issued G21 went 700 rounds (200 ball, 500 duty) with no malfs. My G42 was a pain to break in and required well over 700 rounds rounds before it was reliable with duty/carry ammo. I needed a couple hundred rounds of ball to start break in; it apparently likes warmer ammo.

Wilson Combat is very explicit in requiring at least 300 rounds of break-in before field stripping and cleaning, then one tests with duty/carry ammo.

I would consider 200 rounds malfunction free with duty/carry ammo to be the very minimum. I usually buy ammo in 1000+ round increments for a lot of reasons. Going cheap on ammo for serious purposes is irresponsible.

I will admit I am easier on revolver testing, but I don't carry a revolver often.