govt 380
Member
received 10-5 from GB today. has a bit of play in lockup, side to side. finish as advertised. gun from early 70's. only thing i have to compare with is early 80's model 64, which is rock firm. is slight wobble acceptable?
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how much cylinder wobble is OK
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dawggunner
Member
Well, good question, I am interested in the responses you get.
eyegots2no
Member
I am no expert ---but i have a question;
Have you cocked hammer, pressed trigger and let hammer down easy and going all the way and while still holding trigger back, slighty (but not too heavily) try to move the cylinder???
I have done this on some b class 22 pistols and have often found quite a bit of movement----typically never experience this on a Smith.
Have you cocked hammer, pressed trigger and let hammer down easy and going all the way and while still holding trigger back, slighty (but not too heavily) try to move the cylinder???
I have done this on some b class 22 pistols and have often found quite a bit of movement----typically never experience this on a Smith.
bruner1981
Member
It depends on which "axis" the wobble is occurring on. Is the wobble occurring around the ejector rod, as in rotating around the ejector rod, or is it occurring as a left to right wobble, as if trying to rotate around an axis going perpendicular to the ejector rod, from the top of the gun to the bottom?
I'm sorry if my questions sound a little confusing. It was the best way I could think of to describe it
I'm sorry if my questions sound a little confusing. It was the best way I could think of to describe it
I assume you are talking about the play experienced when the cylinder is turned around the axis, due to the cylinder stop being loose in the cylinder stop notches. If so, some wobble is ok. It has been my experience that the model 10s have more than the magnums do, perhaps due to the numbers produced. A new cylinder stop can be installed to reduce the amount, but it is probably within operating specs. Check to see if the stop notches appear worn and rounded or if they are crisp. If they are not worn, it is probably ok.
cylinder
Too much cylinder rotation while in lock up will result in lead shaving - NOT GOOD!
While in lock up- rotate the cylinder fully both ways and see how the chamber lines up with the barrel. If you can visualize lead getting shaved off as it fires - it's too great.
Replacing the cylinder stop will correct this - though some times they have to be custom fit to the lock up slot in the cylinder.
I've done this several times and am glad I did it. I like perfection.
Too much cylinder rotation while in lock up will result in lead shaving - NOT GOOD!
While in lock up- rotate the cylinder fully both ways and see how the chamber lines up with the barrel. If you can visualize lead getting shaved off as it fires - it's too great.
Replacing the cylinder stop will correct this - though some times they have to be custom fit to the lock up slot in the cylinder.
I've done this several times and am glad I did it. I like perfection.
44wheelman
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Until bullets start shaving or spitting upon entering the bbl, some wobble is normal and acceptable. The mod 10's I've had usually had a pretty good bbl gap as well, and inexplicably some were still pretty accurate. On the other hand I had a ten shot M17 that was pretty tight but spit to the point I feared for the personal safety for those nearby.
I alway inspected for alignment with a bright as I could get flashlight behind the cylinder with the gun cocked. This was easier in the days of pinned hammers. You can also check for non concentric powder burn marks on the cylinder face around each chamber hole. Of course, the ultimate check is accuracy.
I alway inspected for alignment with a bright as I could get flashlight behind the cylinder with the gun cocked. This was easier in the days of pinned hammers. You can also check for non concentric powder burn marks on the cylinder face around each chamber hole. Of course, the ultimate check is accuracy.
Dot_mdb
Member
I have a 686 bought new in 2001. I sent it back to the factory when brand new a number of times for various problems. The cylinder is loose in all directions. S&W said it was up to their specs. Truth is, it shoots well and always has. Apparently revolvers can have very loose tolerances and still be good guns.
Bill
Bill
eyegots2no gave you the answer. Have you tried it at full lockup? (Pull the trigger all the way through and hold it back before testing the cylinder wobble). With most all S&W a little wobble is expected.
raylan007
Member
Why Bother?
That is a less than friendly response, also please note your key board has a shift button on the lower left, novice keyboard user I guess. Happy Trails
Arik
Member
???????????????
bruner1981
Member
I'm pretty sure he was just referring to the question he was about to ask, not calling anyone else's post a "novice question"
dfariswheel
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In S&W, Ruger, Taurus, and the later Colt's like the King Cobra, cylinder rotational movement is not just normal, it's NECESSARY.
The way these revolvers are designed to operate is that slight rotational movement of the cylinder at the instant of ignition allows the bullet entering the bore to force the chamber into alignment with the barrel.
This movement is specifically designed into the action and in revolvers that seem to lock up tightly there's still enough backlash built into the action to allow the needed movement.
How much movement is too much is not a factory specification as far as I know.
In these revolver designs the test is if the revolver is accurate and doesn't shave lead.
As long as it is accurate and not spitting bullet metal, it's good to go.
Cocking the hammer and lowering it while holding the trigger back and testing for cylinder rotation IS NOT A VALID TEST FOR ANYTHING IN THESE REVOLVERS.
The only revolver that this is a valid test for are the older Colt actions as used on the Python, Detective Special, etc.
The older Colt's used a totally different design in which the cylinder chamber is tightly locked in perfect alignment with the bore.
Within reason, the harder the trigger is held back the tighter the cylinder is locked in place.
In the old Colt action holding the trigger back and checking for cylinder movement is valid, and there should be no cylinder rotational movement at all.
The up side to the S&W et all designs are that the actions are cheaper to build and will withstand more abuse and still continue to operate.
The old Colt action is much more expensive to manufacture due to the extensive hand fitting labor needed to build it and it will not withstand the same amount of abusive treatment.
The up side of the Colt revolvers is that they were more accurate because the bullet enters the bore perfectly centered and this doesn't cause the slight bullet deformation caused in S&W and other brands.
In short, while your S&W may seem to lock up tightly, there is enough designed in backlash to allow the necessary cylinder movement.
How much cylinder movement is too much is not a factory specification item.
If it works and shoots well...it's good.
The way these revolvers are designed to operate is that slight rotational movement of the cylinder at the instant of ignition allows the bullet entering the bore to force the chamber into alignment with the barrel.
This movement is specifically designed into the action and in revolvers that seem to lock up tightly there's still enough backlash built into the action to allow the needed movement.
How much movement is too much is not a factory specification as far as I know.
In these revolver designs the test is if the revolver is accurate and doesn't shave lead.
As long as it is accurate and not spitting bullet metal, it's good to go.
Cocking the hammer and lowering it while holding the trigger back and testing for cylinder rotation IS NOT A VALID TEST FOR ANYTHING IN THESE REVOLVERS.
The only revolver that this is a valid test for are the older Colt actions as used on the Python, Detective Special, etc.
The older Colt's used a totally different design in which the cylinder chamber is tightly locked in perfect alignment with the bore.
Within reason, the harder the trigger is held back the tighter the cylinder is locked in place.
In the old Colt action holding the trigger back and checking for cylinder movement is valid, and there should be no cylinder rotational movement at all.
The up side to the S&W et all designs are that the actions are cheaper to build and will withstand more abuse and still continue to operate.
The old Colt action is much more expensive to manufacture due to the extensive hand fitting labor needed to build it and it will not withstand the same amount of abusive treatment.
The up side of the Colt revolvers is that they were more accurate because the bullet enters the bore perfectly centered and this doesn't cause the slight bullet deformation caused in S&W and other brands.
In short, while your S&W may seem to lock up tightly, there is enough designed in backlash to allow the necessary cylinder movement.
How much cylinder movement is too much is not a factory specification item.
If it works and shoots well...it's good.
Dot_mdb
Member
No one's offended. Stick around, ask questions. That is what makes the forum work.
Bill
OLDSTER
Member
Just a word that may have lead some to mis-interpret your meaning.
OLDSTER
Member
cylinder "wobble"
What say all of you regarding cylinder movement in the "bore-parallel axis", or end shake ? I own only one revolver ( all S&W) newer than 1980, a 642. No problems with it at all, but this thread got me curious; so I checked out my 10s, 28s and 15s. None of them, except one well used 15 "shooter" have as much end shake as my post 1980 ( I would say .010+" ). Expert advice will add to the interest in this thread.
What say all of you regarding cylinder movement in the "bore-parallel axis", or end shake ? I own only one revolver ( all S&W) newer than 1980, a 642. No problems with it at all, but this thread got me curious; so I checked out my 10s, 28s and 15s. None of them, except one well used 15 "shooter" have as much end shake as my post 1980 ( I would say .010+" ). Expert advice will add to the interest in this thread.
bruner1981
Member
I'm not a gunsmith, but I wouldn't be too concerned with just .010" end shake. The earlier guns were fitted much better than the more "modern" guns like your 642. Around the time your 642 was made, Smith was probably trying to move out of the hand-fit style of production and move more in to the mass production side, so looser tolerances would have been deemed acceptable. My thoughts are based off of speculation so they may not be correct. Someone else will probably chime in with a more accurate answerWhat say all of you regarding cylinder movement in the "bore-parallel axis", or end shake ? I own only one revolver ( all S&W) newer than 1980, a 642. No problems with it at all, but this thread got me curious; so I checked out my 10s, 28s and 15s. None of them, except one well used 15 "shooter" have as much end shake as my post 1980 ( I would say .010+" ). Expert advice will add to the interest in this thread.
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